P A N E L LEWIS HOPPE Co-Executive Director ROMAN B. HEDGE Member CHRIS ORTLOFF Assemblyman WILLIAM PARMENT Assemblyman Co-Chairman SENATOR DEAN SKELOS Co-Chairman MARK BONILLA Member SENATOR RICHARD DOLLINGER Member DEBRA LEVINE Co-Executive Director LIST OF SPEAKERS AVROHOM HECHT HAZEL YOUNGER BLANCHE PELTONBUSCH GARDY BRAZELA MARK CALLENDER BARRY GORMAN OMAR BOUCHER DEVINE BRADLEY NORA McSWEENEY HONORABLE CHARLES LADSON, SR. YOLANDA MATTHEWS SHEILA LOVELL GARY VANDERPUTEN REGINALD PEOPLES GENRIKH VAPNE REVEREND ALFRED COCKFIELD LYNETTE CAMERON RENEE MUIR DENNIS TAYLOR CLEMENT SAMPSON OLIVER KLAPPER PAULA BOWEN SOLOMON KRANTZ PAULINE BILUS IRA BILUS MARTY MARKOWITZ LISA FEINSTEIN GLORIA MILLER RENEE HAUSER MARVIN EPSTEIN RABBI HARRY KORENBLIT CARMINE CARRO RONNIE BIRNBAUM RABBI ELI GREENWALD KALMEN YEAGER ASSEMBLYWOMAN ADELE COHEN MAXIE RUBENSTEIN MIKE CUTLER STEVE MOSTOFSKY DEBORAH GREIF JEFFREY RESNICK DANA BORELL ROBERTA SHERMAN ALEXANDER SINGER MARCIA SCHIFT SOLL NEEDLE SOL NEIMAN MAURICE KALODEN DARLENE FOSCALE GEORGE McGREGOR CHRIS BROWN ALICIA HAMILL URSULA HAHN DAVID RYAN SHARON BORNO MARY TOBIN VITALIY SHERMAN MICHAEL GREGORIO RAE KHAN WANDA IHRIG DOROTHY TURANO MICHAEL CRANE LOUIS SPINA EILEEN O'BRIEN SAM PALMER PAULA WHITNEY ALLAN WHITNEY JOE ENRIGHT JOSEPH DORINSON SARAH LEE McWHITE SANDRA COWARD EDDIE BRUMFIELD MILDRED MITCHELL REVEREND GEORGE MYRICK HOWARD KATZ RUBEN SAFIR SERENA RAFE MARILYN CHERNIN LEON ALTSCHULER STAN HIRSCHKORN DOUGLAS BLANCERO MICHAEL BENJAMIN LOUISA CIRILLO HENNI FISHER TOM SCALISE GEORGETTE SCALISE MARY GALINSKY COLLIN MOORE BOB HOFFMAN DR. OLEG GUTNIK DANIEL MAIO CYNTHIA SANCHEZ CHARLES SPINARDI PER ODMAN BARRY SMITH SENATOR SKELOS: Good morning. My name is State Senator Dean Skelos. I am co-chair of the New York State Legislative Task Force on Demographic Research and Reapportionment. The primary responsibility of the task force is to draw and today in particular state senate and assembly lines and make a recommendation at some point to the entire legislature for their consideration and if it passes both houses to go to the Governor. We held a series of hearings prior to the drafting of the lines. Today this is the third of seven, possibly one more hearing in Albany where we are asking you the public to give us input on the proposed lines. I underline that they are proposed lines. Following the hearings we will consider all the recommendations made. Possibly make changes in some of the districts. Then the task force will vote as to whether or not to recommend the lines to the entire legislature. I welcome you here today and I look forward to your input. Now I would like to introduce my co-chair William Parment, Assemblyman William Parment. ASSEMBLYMAN PARMENT: Thank you Senator. It's great to be here in the borough of Brooklyn. We look forward to your testimony. SENATOR SKELOS: Next a member of the task force Senator Richard Dollinger. SENATOR DOLLINGER: Good morning. I am Richard Dollinger. I am a democratic state senator from Rochester. This is part of the continuing public participation in the development of the new district lines that will govern the assembly and the senate for the next decade. We've had two hearings as Senator Skelos mentioned in Buffalo and Rochester. This is the third stop on our statewide tour. There are just a couple of issues that I would like to address. One is I've said it at the prior hearings and I'll repeat it again. I think that the issue if the creation of the 62nd state senate seat is one that calls for an explanation. My hope is that someone in the task force will explain eventually the methodology used in calculating the need for 62nd seat under Article Three of the Constitution. I think that issue still remains on the table. My hope is that at some point we will get an explanation for that. The second thing is that I hope that everyone today giving sheer numbers understands that we're going to need some patience in our presentations. Our hope is that we can get everybody. This is a process where everyone's voice in New York should be heard. We're prepared to stay as long and do whatever is necessary to make sure that happens. I am going to end at that point Senator and thank you. SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you Senator. Another member of the task force Assemblyman Chris Ortloff. ASSEMBLYMAN ORTLOFF: Good morning. It's great to be here in this beautiful building, in the beautiful chambers seeing so many interested faces. I bring a prospective that I think is important for everyone in the state to understand. We've been in Buffalo and in Rochester the last two days. While you may not have heard in the media here the people in that part of the state are very angry and very upset because they believe that they have lost one assembly seat more than they should have. The fact of the matter is that New York City gained a great number of people in the last census due to the hard work of people in every neighborhood. Got out and count the people who may not have been counted in 1990. We're all to be commended for that. New York State as a whole gains from that. We could have lost one more congressional seat. Yet in the final analysis we all must be cognizant of the fact that the 55 counties north of the Bronx still have 206,000 more people than the five communities in New York City. They are entitled then to two additional assembly seats more than the city. The proper allocation of assembly seats is 65 for the upstate counties, 63 for the city and 22 for Long Island. In the assembly plan drawn by a majority who is based in New York City, they have taken two extra seats. While you may be very happy to hear about that, the upstate folks are equally unhappy. They believe that it's wrong and they simply ask me as an upstate member to carry this message to you. They love New York. For the last months they kept the people of New York City in their hearts and their minds. They've opened their wallets. They've sent their firefighters. They've sent their prayers. All they ask in return is that they are treated fairly in this plan and that you be cognizant of their needs. I'm very interested to hear the testimony today. I hope you'll bear that fact in mind as well. Thank you. SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you very much. Another member of the task force is Mark Bonilla. MR. BONILLA: Good morning everybody. My name is Mark Bonilla. I am the newest member of this task force. I just want to tell you real briefly something about my background. I am a practicing attorney. I have been practicing law in pretty much the five boroughs as well as Staten Island, Rochester and Rockland County. I've practiced in every area of the law. I learn about this apportionment and we've reached out to the senate majority and I was greeted with open arms. I also want to tell you that my parents are both from Puerto Rico. When they moved here from Puerto Rico they came and moved into Williamsburgh. They lived there for about fifteen years. They moved to Queens where I was born and raised. Now I am married. I have three children. I am very active in my community. My children I coach all their teams, their basketball teams, their baseball teams. Again I am very active within my community. That is part of the reason why I lobbied for this position. Reached out to the senate majority in particular Senator Skelos and was appointed on this task force. I find my role here, I am going to be very attentive to you folks. I appreciate you taking the time from your busy schedules to be here. I promise you that I will be attentive to your needs and your concerns. I will try to do what's necessary for the needs and the best of the minorities as well as the Hispanics. Thank you very much. SENATOR SKELOS: Another member of the task force Roman Hedge. MR. HEDGE: It's great to be here in Brooklyn. Today is going to be a long day. I hope you'll bear with us. We're looking forward to hearing from you. I'm ready to proceed. SENATOR SKELOS: I would like to just make a short statement. The New York Constitution requires that the size of a senate be determined after each census under the standards set forth in the Constitution to reflect changes in population. Pursuant to the legal analysis of outside counsel which I believe has been posted on our website it has been determined that the proper size of the senate is 62 under those Constitutional standards. Analysis for determining the senate size most accurately reflects both the letter and the spirit of the New York Constitution. Under the 62 seat senate the number of senators will remain the same on Long Island and upstate while New York City will gain an additional senate district. In addition the proposed senate plan complies with all equal population requirements of the United States Constitution as interpreted by the Supreme Court and lower federal courts. I would advise all of our witnesses and ask if you could keep your comments to five minutes. The entire task force discussed this yesterday. It is our hope that we can hear everybody today. If you have written testimony and you care to submit that, that has the same right and weight as oral testimony. One thing that we are going to ask and we've all agreed to this that your testimony has to be kept to a minimum of five minutes as consideration to everybody else. I'm sorry maximum of five minutes. Our first witness is Avrohom Hecht from the JCC of Canarsie. MR. HECHT: Honored elected officials and members of the committee. My name is Avrohom Hecht. I am the Executive Director of the Jewish Community Council of Canarsie, a multi service agency servicing 7,000 clients throughout the 19th and 21st Senatorial Districts. We also represent over 17 synagogues and Jewish organizations from southeastern Brooklyn. I come before you today not on my behalf but rather to speak out on behalf of the many frail homebound and handicapped individuals who could not be here today. For over two decades we have provided services to the Canarsie and Starrett City communities. Unit service professionals, civic leaders and our clergy have long prided ourselves on our ability to work closely together. Our need on the political level have been meet by being able to work together as a unified community. The proposed lines for the 19th Senatorial District will in effect divide our communities. Over the past several years thousands of individuals from the former Soviet Union have settled throughout the 19th Senatorial District. While much of this population resides in the Starrett City area, our infrastructure remains in the Canarise area. The majority of our parochial schools both Catholic and Jewish are in the Canarsie area. This is also true for the HES, the Hebrew Educational Society in Canarsie which provides affordable recreational and athletic services. Our micva, a ritualarium which provides for our religious needs is also based in Canarise. We ask you to please consider preserving our community. Thank you very much. SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you. Any questions? Thank you very much sir. Hazel Younger MS. YOUNGER: Good morning. As you know my name is Hazel Younger. President of the Board of Directors of the Patrick E. Gorman Housing Company and our sister development Jimerson Housing both Mitchel Lama co-ops. I've been a resident of this community for 25 years. Our voting record speaks for itself. I appear here today with a heavy heart and a great concern regarding the proposed redistricting -- SENATOR SKELOS: Excuse me can you speak just a little bit louder so our audience can hear? MS. YOUNGER: Is that better? Now don't take that off my five minutes. I appear here today with a heavy heart and a great concern regarding the proposed redistricting which would affect Brownsville, Canarsie and East Flatbush. The proposed reapportionment is not fair. Because it will certainly dilute the voting power and influence of the minority voters. By increasing the size of this senate and by overpopulating all of the New York City senate districts, under-populating all of the upstate senate districts. I believe that the proposed redistricting violates the Voting Act of 1965. How can we show critical mass if we are constantly divided as a community? We got to great lengths to vote for the person that we want in there senate to represent us. This redistricting takes away the power of our community. The process should be fair to the voters and yet it is not. This process brings to mind the Real Estate Block Busting. The real estate brokers would go into the white neighborhoods and say the blacks are coming. Right away the houses were sold and then purchased by the blacks for much more than they were worth. Now we have district busting. In both cases minorities are victims. This process has chosen to once again dilute our voting power and weaken our posture in the community as a people as well as a community. Again this is not fair. The redistricting process in New York will break up communities of interest, areas shared with concerns and values. This does in fact violate the Voting Act of 1965. Are we once again faced with partisan ploy? I think so. Not fair again. There appears to be gerrymandering and illegal acts. Both are repugnant. It violates the intent and the law. We want our voices to be heard today. Our government cries out. Se must be strong and committed to our country in the shadow of the World Trade disaster. But yet our government and those responsible are willing to weaken and destroy our communities, bust them up, destroy them and destroy our united political endeavors. I pray that this task force will hear the voices of our communities. Let us keep our Senator. Senator John L. Sampson a true leader and a man of integrity who has worked very hard and long. He has become the glue in our community. He has been very effective in helping our school children. He is involved with School District 23 and has laid the ground work for the International Dyslexia Association to come into the School District 23. Having done that the Board of Education has approved the plan that he presented to the Board of Education and District 23 in terms of helping children that are dyslexia and have learning disabilities. I pray that we will be able to make progress with Senator Sampson in the coming years. In closing I would just like to say if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Just leave it alone. Thank you. SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you very much. Blanche Peltonbusch. Is Blanche here? Gardy Brazela. I'm sorry you're Blanche. MS. PELTONBUSCH: Good morning ladies and gentlemen. My name is Blanche Peltonbusch. I am a Brownsville person. I am a Senator John L. Sampson constituent. I have lived in Brownsville for 21 years. I have never seen either one of you help Brownsville. Now that we have someone here that is going to help Brownsville, have helped Brownsville and continues and why are you so afraid of this gentleman that you want to dilute his area? Why do you want to take away from us when you are living off the poor? You are rich off of the poor. We need this gentleman. We need this young black man. He is educated. He is intelligent. He is concerned. He is one of a model that would be somewhat like Martin Luther King. He takes everybody's concern. He don't take your color. He takes everybody's concern. I am wondering why are you so afraid of this gentleman. Of not only him, of Brownsville wherever he is stationed, the 19th District. Why are you so afraid that you want to (inaudible) people? Why? Answer my question please. I want one person to answer it. One. One of you to answer. You have no answer to it otherwise you would have said it at first. I thank you very much. SENATOR SKELOS: If I could respond. The reason for these hearings is to listen to you to make recommendations where you think certain aspects of the plan are deficient. That's what this is about. That's why we are here. If we did not want to listen to you we would not be here. MS. PELTONBUSCH: But you're listening to us. SENATOR SKELOS: And we are. MS. PELTONBUSCH: You do listen. I grant you that. You listen but you don't react. SENATOR SKELOS: Well -- MS. PELTONBUSCH: You don't react. SENATOR SKELOS: Let's see what the final product is. MS. PELTONBUSCH: Okay. SENATOR SKELOS: Okay. MS. PELTONBUSCH: Okay. Remember you said it. SENATOR SKELOS: Our next witness is Gardy Brazela. MR. BRAZELA: My name is Gardy Brazela. I am a political activist. I am President of Friends United Black Association in Canarsie (inaudible) John Sampson. I am here this morning to show support to my community. The proposed district (inaudible) proposal is wrong. If we also let this happen it will destroy our community. And also it will destroy everything that we have fought for over the years. I strongly believe that it will be in violation of the Civil Rights Act of 1965. I am asking this board to take this into consideration by leaving it the way it is. If it's not broken don't fix it. We don't need a new proposed district because that would destroy our community. That's all I have to say. Thank you. SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you. Mark Callender. Is Mark here? MR. CALLENDER: Good morning ladies and gentlemen. My name is Mark Callender. I have a statement but I entered into evidence. All I have to say is what Gardy said. If it's not broken we don't fix it. I've come to know Senator Sampson. I think he's an outstanding human being. Wonderful elected official. I don't think you need to change his lines. I think the community is certainly a diverse, dynamic community. He represents us very well. There is no need to dilute our voting strength. We can expect greater things from Senator Sampson. I think that you should leave the lines in tact. I really think that also some of the (inaudible) you need to look at this from our prospective. I think that the city of New York in light of September 11th, the State of New York in light of that day you should certainly take this process much more seriously than you are taking it. It is not just regular of the mill reapportionment. But certainly please keep our community in tact so that we don't lose our voting strength and abilities. Thank you. SENATOR SKELOS: Honorable Charles Ladson, Sr. Are you here? Mark Fertig. Mark here? Barry Gorman. Is Barry here? Omar Boucher is next. I hope I am pronouncing your last name correct. MR. GORMAN: My name is Barry Gorman. I want to say good morning ladies and gentlemen. I would like to thank you for giving me this opportunity to speak to you on an issue that is important to me personally and our community. I live at 2505 Rockaway Parkway, Brooklyn in Bayview Houses. I have been living there for 37 years. I am very upset at the district lines that have been proposed by the New York State Legislative Task Force and Demographic Research and Reapportionment. My views also express beliefs of those who are in the audience but are not scheduled to speak. The new lines will split my community and my vote and my political voice. I believe that we must continue to maintain the political and economic influence of minority communities. I am here to strongly urge the state legislature and the Governor to reject the proposal lines. Our current communities have common interests. I am very happy that Canarsie, Brownsville and East Flatbush have a united political voice. It is a voice of my friends and neighbors. People in my community that I see everyday. People that I care about. Education and other issues in our community. These are the issues that can be addressed by one State Senator advocating our beliefs. My community should continue to be represented by one Senator in a compact district that has been gerrymandered to take away the rights of the people. The lines proposed for our 19th Senate District by the Legislative Task Force on Reapportionment destroy the voice of our community by extending the district lines for miles through the water attaching Canarsie, East New York and Brownsville to the distant district areas of Manhattan Beach, Brighton Beach and Gravesend, while taking Canarsie and East Flatbush and slicing them each of these communities in half. This minority community would be represented by more than one State Senator. This would dilute our voting power. My neighbors and I have little if anything in common with areas like Brighton Beach, Gravesend and Manhattan Beach. It is very unfair to divide a united community with a common interest and goals and dilute it's political voice. I believe that the proposed lines illegally dilute the voting power and the influence of minority voters by increasing the size of the Senate and by overpopulating all of the New York City Senate districts while under-populating all of the upstate Senate districts. Even as a layperson I believe the districts violate the Voting Rights Act of 1965. Therefore I strongly urge the legislature and the Governor to reject the proposed district lines and preserve the community and it's political voice. These lines are unfair and they slap the face of every voter in the current 19th Senate District. My community will not allow our government to take away our rights. I believe strongly and recommend that you propose lines that maximum, minimizing the voting power and influence the minority communities throughout New York State and maintain the communities of Canarsie and East Flatbush in a single Senate District. To the Governor. I wish you to veto any redistricting plan that dilutes minority voting power and results in destroying our communities in Canarsie and East Flatbush. My community will no longer stand by and watch our rights trampled on. We are entitled to equal rights and voting power under the law. All I ask is that you uphold the law. In closing I would like to make a statement of a very famous baseball player in the hall of fame. It ain't over till it's over. Thank you. SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you very much sir. Is Omar here? Omar Boucher. MR. BOUCHER: Good morning ladies and gentlemen. My name is Omar Boucher. I am a political consultant and demographic is what I do for a living. I live in the 19th Senatorial District as it is as present. I just want to bring to your attention that I am speaking on behalf of the constituents who live in this district as well. Number one we are opposed to the new district being drawn. We believe that the district lines in Brooklyn violate the Voting Right Act because it separates communities. It splits subdivisions which is illegal. It dilutes the voting rights of various constituents. By this I mean that it weakens the ability of constituents to vote as a group. This district line as proposed is an effort and it also guarantees that the republicans are a sure shot at winning the 25th district, opposed Senate District which is gerrymandered to allow them to win the seat. What we will be left with if these lines are allowed to strand or to be drawn as they are proposed is that our Senator, Senator John Sampson will no longer live in the district nor will his office be in the district. This new district picks up communities that have nothing in common with each other apart from the fact that they live in the same borough. The Caribbean community of which I am a member has been adversely affected by these lines. Fortunate for us there is an avenue which is the Justice Department and they have a thing called preclearance which will allow us an avenue to speak to the Justice Department about these proposed gerrymandered lines. The courts recognizes on many occasions that gerrymandered districts are drawn and their purpose is to dilute the minority voting the right strength. When one looks at the lines in Brooklyn there is no doubt that because of trying to create an all white seat. All of us will suffer if it's allowed to stand. The increase of the number of State Senate seat from 61 to 62 also violates the voting Right Act based on the fact that it dilutes the representation of minority voters from the current number of 12 senators in the body of 61 to 12 in the body of 62. I also just want to include here a little statement. Many people have not heard this before that numbers of folks up in the north of New York, there was an increase in the population so as to allow them to create assembly seats. I want to make note here and also to ask for your indulgence is that the reason for that isn't the fact that it's because the prison population has increaeed so much which is to the disadvantage of down here, downstate. So there is no reason why downstate should suffer simply becaue you have more prisoners upstate. In closing I just want to say this, because of the way these lines are drawn we as a community are prepared to file suit in court objecting to these lines. Or in joining in a suit that is presently before the court. We are many constintuents here today who are eager to become litigants to protect their right, their choice as to who they want to represent them In closing I would just add we the community strongly believe that the court is the best arbiter of this matter. Given the time contstraint we think that a court can and will resolve this in a timely and just manner. Thank you. SENATOR SKELOS: Divine Bradley. Would it be possible in the back if we could keep the chatter down? It makes it very difficult to hear in here. Divine Bradley you're on. MR. BRADLEY: How are you guys doing? I'm Divine Bradley. Good morning. I'm here to represent the youth of the Canarsie District. I am Executive Director of a youth program called Team Revolution which is a non-profit organization within the community of Canarsie to revolutionize the way things are going within the community dealing with the youth. Hearing that there would be some sort of redistricting and there is going to be another community joining forces with the community as well as East Flatbush and Brownsville it takes away from the mission of to say my organization since I am dealing with the youth in these areas of District 19. I'm just here just to basically back up Senator Sampson and say that he's doing a great job. I don't think that his mission would be for taking care of people within the Manhattan Beach area or Brighton Beach area. Just to say just don't do it. I don't think that the youth would appreciate it. I am here just to represent the youth. That's it. SENATOR SKELOS: Wayne Harris. Is Wayne here? Milton Bolton. Is Milton here? Nora McSweeney. Is Nora here? MS. McSWEENEY: Good morning. My name is Nora McSweeney. I live in the Canarsie area for 21 years. I am just a regular citizen. I am here to speak on behalf of my neighbors and my community. Mr. Sampson has been very influential in the community. His office is open to everyone. It would be a tremendous lose if the district was to break up and Mr. Sampson has to move from the district. Thank you very much. SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you. Is Mr. Ladson here? I believe he was downstairs listening to the testimony and took a little time to get up. Welcome sir. MR. LADSON: Good morning. I am from District 23. School Board member of my district. You have to bear with me because I get a little choked up sometimes. I am really compassionate for the kids. I am speaking in Senator Sampson's behalf. I know that the Senator and Ocean Hill Brownsville have done a wonderful job with our children. He participated with parent involvement with the parents. He deals with our senior citizens. He deals with jobs and everything in our district. The people over there love him and they say that he is doing a wonderful job. We would like the Senator to continue doing the job that he is doing in Ocean Hill Brownsville and Canarsie. Thank you very much and May God Bless You. SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you. Dr. Luther Blake. Is Luther here? Peter Pouchon I believe it is P-O-U-C-H-O-N. Is Peter here? Yolanda Matthews. MS. MATTHEWS: Good morning board. I am here to represent Senator Sampson and speak on his behalf. I am a parent in Community Board 23. I am also speaking of ACRON of Brooklyn. I am the co-chairperson of Brownsville of ACORN. SENATOR SKELOS: Can we have some quite in the back please and in the room so each witness can be heard. MS. MATTHEWS: Also I lived in Brownsville for over 27 years. I am speaking on the situation that I have to go to Senator Sampson personally for my son who was diagnosed with a learning disability. Who is 13 years old. I could not get no help with the Board of Education with my son until I went into Senator Sampson's office. They kept telling me that he had a learning disability but yet in still they wouldn't put him in a classroom, a smaller classroom that he needed to be put in. My son used to fail every subject in school until he was this year put in the right class in P.S. 41, smaller setting. My son improved over 90% of all his grades. This is through me going to Senator Sampson which is actually proof. I had no faith as a mother in no politician in that district at all. Ms. Peltonbusch is a neighbor of mine who told me please go to Senator Sampson's office. This is a problem. I have been going through this situation with my son since 1993. I decided to take her advice and go to his office in the year 2000. I got actual proof overnight. He was replaced. He is doing much better in school. He is reading better. He has a teacher that is taking time with him. I feel that for Senator Sampson to be moved out of this area is going to be a disaster. Of course I am an ACORN member and anytime we go to him with any situation, I was hurt on my job working at Brooklyn Developmental. I work in a psyche unit. Also I am AP Office of the 67th Precinct. I can go to this man anytime and he always has an open door. If he is not there, there is somebody there to help me. It would be a disaster for the youth, for the community, for the senior citizens to have to start all over with someone else or a zoning that we are not even familiar with. I speak for Brownsville, Canarsie and also for Flatbush and Ocean Hill Brownsville. We unite together to get justice. I am willing to unite together no matter what to see that this doesn't go through. Thank you. SENATOR SKELOS: Sheila Lovell. After Sheila will be Robert Carrington. MS. LOVELL: Good morning ladies and gentlemen. Thank you for giving me this opportunity to speak to you on an issue that is important to me personally and my community. My name is Sheila Lovell and I live at 764 East 46th, Brooklyn. I have lived in this community for over 8 years. I am very upset about the district lines that have been proposed by the New York State Legislative Task Force and Demographic Research and Reapportionment. My views also express the beliefs of those who are in the audience but are not scheduled to speak. The new lines will split my community and dilute my vote and my political voice. I believe that we must continue to maintain the political and economic influence of minority communities. I am here to strongly urge the state legislature and the Governor to reject the proposed lines. Our current communities have common interests. I am very happy that Canarsie, Brownsville and East Flatbush have a united political voice. It is the voice of my friends and neighbors. People in my community that I see everyday. People that I care about. Issues that affect them also affect me. Important issues such as crime prevention, housing and education in the local community. These are the issues that can be addressed by one State Senator advocating on our behalf. My community should continue to be represented by one Senator in a compact district that has been gerrymandered to take away the rights of the people. The lines proposed for our 19th Senate District by the Legislative Task Force on Reapportionment destroy the voice of our community by extending the district for miles through the water attaching Canarsie, East New York and Brownsville to the distant areas of Manhattan Beach, Brighton Beach and Gravesend, while taking Canarsie and East Flatbush and slicing them each of these communities in half. This minority community would be represented by more than one State Senator. This would dilute our voting power. My neighbors and I have little if anything in common with areas like Brighton Beach, Gravesend and Manhattan Beach. It is very unfair to divide a united community with a common interest and goals and dilute it's political voice. I believe that the proposed lines illegally dilute the voting power and the influence of minority voters by increasing the size of the Senate and by overpopulating all of the New York City Senate districts while under-populating all of the upstate Senate districts. Even as a layperson I believe the proposed districts violate the Voting Rights Act of 1965. Therefore I strongly urge the legislature and the Governor to reject the proposed district lines and preserve my community and it's political voice. To the task force. These lines are unfair and they slap the face of every voter in the current 19th Senate District. My community will not allow our government to take away our rights. I strongly recommend that you propose lines that maximize the voting power and influence the minority communities throughout New York State and maintain the communities of Canarsie and East Flatbush in a single Senate District. To the Governor. I urge you to veto any redistricting plan that dilutes minority voting power and results in destroying our communities in Canarsie and East Flatbush. My community will no longer stand by and watch our rights trampled on. We are entitled to equal rights and voting power under the law. All I ask is that you uphold the law. Thank you very much. SENATOR SKELOS: Robert Carrington. Robert Carrington are you here? Per Odem. No? Gary VanderPuten. Is Reginald here? MR. VANDERPUTEN: Good morning members of the committee. I am Gary VanderPuten. I represent the small community on the waterfront, Fulton Ferry Landing. First of all I appreciate the difficulty of your task and wish you God speed in resolving this. My interest has to do with the 52nd A.D., John Norman's district. My community has not been affected by that directly. Fulton Ferry Landing, DUMBO and the community known as Vinegar Hill is right up on the waterfront under the Navy Yard always working tandem on a lot of issues. We share the same waterfront issues, community issues, zoning issues. Have always been very well represented by our newly elected officials especially John Norman. Vinegar Hill has been just cut off the perimeter of this. Vinegar Hill does not by itself represent any significant number of votes. It's just geographically important to the whole waterfront which is currently being addressed by Brooklyn, the Mayor and the Governor with a Brooklyn Bridge Park. This is just one piece of it that has been cut out. I urge you to reconsider this. We don't think this would serve any useful purpose politically to have it cut out. We would like you to revisit this. I thank you. SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you. Mr. Peoples. MR. PEOPLES: Good Morning. I am Reginald Peoples. I would like to say that I don't know exactly all of the ramifications of exactly will take place in this change. I am an employer of the New York City Transit Authority as you can see from my uniform. I lived in the community of Canarsie for some time. I would just like to say that Senator Sampson is a man of integrity. We worship on the same Sabbath at Christian Culture Center. I will bring greetings from Christian Culture Center to my pastor Dr. Bair Bernard, Sr. (ph). I would like to say that Senator John Sampson is a man of true integrity. Out of everything everybody said here there is a reason and purpose that god has placed him where he is today. There may be a lot of words that everybody can say to approach this board. Many of the things that were said, statement if nothing is broken don't fix it. We are facing a crucial time in this world today. Out of all the things that we need to address this is not one of things that we need to address. There are a lot of things that need to be taken care of that could be taken care of in our community, in our world, in the lives of our senior citizens, people who have taken their time to work in this country and slave for this country. They receive nothing. I think that it is time that as politicians that they take the time to receive, to look towards God within their own culture and become men and women of integrity, of righteousness, of justice, of peace and not just a mere man who wants to come in or mere woman who wants to come and give promises but not be able to keep them. The only thing that I can say right now is that God knows Senator Sampson's heart and his willingness and his purpose to continue in that community. We at Christian Culture Center will continue to pray, continue to ask God through the Lord Jesus Christ to continue to do whatever is needed to keep him in that community. All these people behind me for whatever the reason maybe need him. Thank you. SENATOR DOLLINGER: I would just like to make one comment in the wake of Mr. People's comment. I know my colleague John Sampson is here. The purpose of these hearings is to look at the United States Constitutional requirements for reapportionment and redistricting and the State Constitutional guidelines for reapportionment and redistricting. That involves a discussion of community of interest and what's happening and this community changer as new voices come to New York and as they become a part of the political process. We have heard throughout the state lots of discussion about incumbents and their value to communities and how they become a part of a community. That is one of the factors that we can look at. It is not the only factor. The factors of the communities of changes in the communities, really the constitutional requirements when you combine it with the need for contability and compactness. We have heard a lot of discussion throughout these hearings both on the first phase of these hearings and in this phase about the value of incumbent and the good things that they do. We appreciate that but that is not the only, those are not the only issues that we focus on when these district lines are both drawn in their tentative form which is what you will see before you today and in the final form that they will emerge from the legislature and be considered by the Governor. We can get into that when people testify. My point is that there are a number of considerations that the task force has to consider as a matter of constitutional law that become a part of a consideration. Incumbency is one factor that we are permitted to consider. The only point I am making is it's not the only one. There are other factors as well. Changes in communities, development of communities, the stability of communities. A whole series of factors that go into deciding communities of interest which are one of the factors that we consider. That's why I think the nature of the testimony today broad and it's discussion about Brooklyn and what's happening in the borough is critically important to understand in order to be able to draw the lines and make the right decisions. SENATOR SKELOS: Our next witness is Marty Markowitz, Brooklyn Borough President. Is Marty here? Pat Cooke. Is Pat Cook here? Pat Cook. Mr. Vapne V-A-P-N-E. MR. VAPNE: (Inaudible). INTERPRETOR: (Inaudible) about the districts in Brooklyn from the (inaudible). MR. VAPNE: (Inaudible). INTERPRETOR: Monday he was in your office to get some more information. MR. VAPNE: (Inaudible). INTERPRETOR: He didn't get answers to his questions. MR. VAPNE: (Inaudible). INTERPRETOR: He wants to give you right now all his questions in written form. MR. VAPNE: (Inaudible). INTERPRETOR: He strongly opposes new district lines for New York State Senate Districts Number 21 and 22. MR. VAPNE: (Inaudible). INTERPRETOR: He still wants to get answers to his questions. MR. VAPNE: (Inaudible). I ask you Mr. Skelos to answer to everybody only my last question. Only one question. The sixth question. Can our meeting only get the people (inaudible) decisions. (inaudible) obligation to take our opinions and decide what we needed. Maybe all we needed is only blah, blah, blah without any (inaudible). I ask you (inaudible). INTERPRETOR: His main concern is productivity of this meeting. He is concerned that all people who are talking today are just talking about something you will never consider. SENATOR SKELOS: The opinions and commentaries of those individuals testifying can change the opinion of the task force and most definitely will change the opinion of the task force in many instances. Let me assure that as I said at the beginning of the meeting. The task force makes a recommendation to the legislature. It is the legislature who then has to approve it or disapprove it and the governor has to sign or veto the legislation. Our next witness is Reverend Alfred Cockfield, God's Battalion of Prayer Church. REVEREND COCKFIELD: Good morning ladies and gentlemen. I am Alfred Cockfield, Pastor of God's Battalion of Prayer Church located at 661 Linden Boulevard in Brooklyn. I have been part of this community since 1968. Over the years I have seen the changes. I serve the parishioners of this community. We are upset. Because it takes years to build a community. In recent years the 19th District which the representation of our present Senator has brought the community together. The word politics has two connotations. One positive and one negative. The root word for politics is community building. It is polite. It is polity. When people who are not directly affected by communities can sit down and come up with schemes and designs to destroy community, it's weakediness and it's sinful. We as leaders who spend tireless hours to influence people for good when it takes years to build structures and can be destroyed in minutes. On 9/11 is a vivid example of what happens when people are self-serving. We have representation of a man and as pastor and have to interrupt with so many people that is in no scale to what the Senator has to deal with in the 19th District. How he can do it I salute him. He is a man that I believe as someone said before that is a man that has been placed there by God to represent the 19th District. I cannot subscribe to what the statement that was made by Mr. Dollinger that what we are saying is only part of the process. This affects us. We are the people. If we are not important then go and divide the ocean where no people live. Then nobody will be here. We are here because this concerns us. The late Dr. Eric Williams said people get the leadership that they deserve. We deserve Senator John Sampson. We elected him. We voted for him. We want him to represent all of us in the 19th District. Thank you very much. SENATOR SKELOS: Sheila Osborne. Is Sheila here? Lynette Cameron. Is Lynette here? MS. CAMERON: Good morning everyone. My name is Lynette Cameron and I am an East New Yorker. I have been living there since 1967 and I love where I live. What I want to say I've given you my testimony but I just want to say a few things. If you divide us right now from the way we are, redistricting is not going to work for us. We have nothing in common with the folks that you are going to connect us with. Nothing. Sometimes I as a person of East New Yorker, I am unable to go over there for fear of what might happen to me if I do. How am I going to consider them to be my neighbors if I can't go to my neighbors place? You would not know where the roof is leaking in my house unless you come into my house. We have a community that we need to be building continually. What I would like to say to the Governor instead of redistricting it should be refinancing. We need more money in our district. I am a parent volunteer. I am at schools throughout the City of New York every single day. What we need is the money from the Governor. Not to be moving lines here and there. We need him to move the arrow directly into our school building so our children can get what they need to get. Not change the demographics of where we live to give somebody else something more, bring them where we are and take away from what we already have. We already have a little. What are you going to take a little from a little? What are we going to be left with? We need refinancing not redistricting. We appreciate the Senator that we have. I can call him any hour. I can call him 1:00 in the morning if I have a problem. If I have somebody else who does not have my interest at heart you think I can call them? I would probably be out off to somebody else who is working in the office and be told to call back. We need the change to be where we, help to build what we already have not to take from what we have and to bring something else that's going to take away more. We need the assistance to build. Our children are failing miserably every single day. They don't have books that they are supposed to have. Some schools don't have pencils. Our children need an education. It would be great if I could have brought the class today so this could have been a classroom activity so they can see what happens, how other people, the policy makers decide how our lives are going to go. It is time for a change. The people who are making the policies think of where I live. Don't think of where you live. Where you live is no comparison to where I live. You don't know what I go through. You don't know unless you are there. Tell the Governor, you can tell him I said instead of redistricting we want refinancing. Thank you. SENATOR SKELOS: Winchester Key. Winchester Key. Renee Muir M-U-I-R. Is Renee here? Could we have quite please? MS. MUIR: Good morning. My name is Renee Muri. I am here today to add my voice to the rising number of voices who oppose the proposed redistricting lines for the 19th Senate District. While we are all New Yorkers part of the beauty of New York and part of the reality of New York and Brooklyn in particular are the range in the varieties of our communities. Given that it stands to reason that the differences are also reflected in our issues and our priorities of those issues. SENATOR SKELOS: Excuse me one minute. Please in the back. MS. MUIR: Therefore any redistricting must accommodate this reality. The fact that we are all different communities. This is the challenge that you face and in carrying out this task the final result must not only be lawful it must make sense. I ask you to look at the similarities of communities like Canarsie, East New York and Brownsville and their disparities with Gravesend and Brighton Beach and Manhattan Beach. How will our community be fairly represented when it's voice is diluted by the proposed increase in the Senate's districts size? Ladies and gentlemen the lines must make common sense. The increasing volume of opposition that you are hearing today is for a reason. We object to any redistricting that dilutes our voting power and influence. Our communities have made dramatic strides in the past few years. We would like to continue. We could only do so if we are allowed to remain a united community. SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you very much. Dennis Taylor. Is Dennis here? After Dennis will be Barry Sussman and then Clement Sampson. MR. TAYLOR: Good morning everyone. Let me just take this time to thank each and every one of you that is sitting on the panel for giving us, the community of Canarsie, East New York, Brownsville the opportunity to come and just voice the concerns of our communities. Let me just prefix this by saying politicians are really not high on my priority list. But when you find one that has character and integrity and you try to hold on to him. I believe that with this redistricting thing what I think you should take back to Albany and perhaps to Washington is to look and reexamine the Constitution and the State Legislature to see can you come with a better solution that what is currently on the table now. Senator Sampson, just let me add this, and I, we worship together at Christian Life Center. Like I said when you find a man that has demonstrated the ability to cultivate relationships with a community that is so dire in need that don't have the voices of communities, you dearly try to hold onto that gentleman. With this redistricting, not that I don't think he could serve that, because he had demonstrated that he is a man that can serve all people but yet from the fairness of it to take him out of communities such as Canarsie, Flatbush and East New York and to place him in communities that don't know him and perhaps don't want to know him is really, really wrong. Today I stand here to ask you to clearly open your hearts and your minds as to looking because, just because the U.S. Constitution calls for it doesn't say it's necessarily right. I would ask you to go back and truly open your hearts and your minds to reexamine the rules and regulations that govern reconstitution, reapportionment and redistricting so that you could sit down and come up with a better solution so we will not have to come in forums like this and divide people and to divide communities. Thank you very much, SENATOR SKELOS: Barry Sussman. Is Barry here? Clement Sampson. Is he here? MR. SAMPSON: Ladies and gentleman. Distinguished panel of the judiciary. 1997 I was here when my son was sworn in as the 19th Senatorial District Senator. I made a statement that you have now earned the right to run for any federal office including the President of the United States. I believe that my son, not because he's my son, I have prepared him. My three children (inaudible) 1967 I moved from Bedford Stuyvesant to East New York. My son was two years old. He has attended 233. From there he has attended the high school were he played basketball, football and baseball. If my memory serves me right (inaudible) he has attended (inaudible) High School where he was interested in politics or law. From there he has attended Brooklyn College where he got his bachelor of science. From there he worked one year in the city department, law department. He further went to Albany Law School. My son has prepared himself because I have taught him. I was born in Guinea. My wife is from South Caroline. I believe in education. My son happens to be the only minority, the first that ever has been elected in the 19th Senatorial District since the days of reconstruction. I am here standing as a citizen. Fifty years I would be in America. I have a constitutional right. My son told me not to say anything. I would be missed if I did not stand and talk about him. Of his good deeds that he has done in the community. My son has served the community. My wife wants (inaudible) he told her Mom I have to go for a meeting. He left his mother to take care of constituents. I think I would like to be very brief. It is blatantly wrong and disregard when you are going to take away a man's district and put him in an area where he does not know anything of. I think it is gerrymandering and it is (inaudible). I would accept the President that we have now because of the constitution. Although it was not a popular vote. In this case let us be fair. Whatever we do God is watching us. It is blatantly wrong the republican, the majority and the senate what they want. To create another senatorial district. If you are going to create it let everybody include. You do not subtract. You add on. As a citizen I blatantly, it is blatantly wrong, outrageous. I cannot find words to tell you about these lines that are designed. If she is so she will be the case. I think it should go to the Supreme Court of the United States. Thank you very much. SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you very much sir. Esmerelda Simmons. Is she here? Oliver Klapper. Paula Bowen. Is Paula here? I'm sorry. You'll be next. MR. KLAPPER: My name is Oliver Klapper. I'm a past President of the Manhattan Beach Community Group. Past President of the Manhattan Beach Jewish Center. I am the kind of person that you like to refer to as a has been. I have come out of mothballs this morning to speak about the proposed 19th Senatorial District Brooklyn is a borough of neighborhoods. Wonderful proud neighborhoods, Brownsville, East New York, Bayridge, Canarsie. If you are found walking the streets in Europe and someone asks you where are you from, your inclination is to say I'm from Faltbush, I'm from Borough Park, I'm from Bensonhurst. These neighborhoods mean a great deal to us. There are fine and good people who live there. I am here basically to tell you that a combination of people in Manhattan Beach, East New York and Brownsville have much in common. The people are hard working people. People who work hard to pay the rent and meet their mortgage payments. Very often two jobs. Very often mother and father both working to make ends meet. We're interested in safety in our streets. We're interested in good education for our children. We love our children. We make them do their homework. Respect their teachers. We want to have more to say about our schools. We have faith in God. We may read different prayer books but we always look in the same direction. We have lots in common. Yet I am here this morning to speak against this new proposed district. Because basically Manhattan Beach is all about water. We are surrounded by water. We are a waterfront community but we are more than that. We are a peninsula. We are surrounded on three sides by water. We have our connection with neighborhoods that are also on the water. Sheepshead Bay, Gerritsen Beach, Mill Basin. Even our names take into account our location. This map that has been drawn. Maps are all about geography. Our geography lesson is that water is what, is a part of our identity and part of our character. What are we concerned about? We share concerns with our neighbors that have to do with fishing fleet. With dredging. With pollution. Water pollution and air pollution that impacts on our community. We are concerned about the dumping of pollutants into our seawater. We have fought against the federal government. We basically have things have in common that relate to the water. Really now take a circle around Manhattan Beach and run it five miles through the water and then direct it straight north to a far reaching part of the borough that basically is not concerned so much with salt water. That's what we have running through our veins. Basically those are the concerns that we have. I would want to make one more comment which only struck me recently. This area includes Brighton Beach. Brighton Beach is famous across the country as having one of the highest concentration of seniors. Basically it almost seems to go against the American Disability Act for the people who are frail. For the people that are older. Who helped build this country and fight our wars. They are now the people that will have to go long distance to find their own representative. Someone that basically they can talk to about Medicare. About the rent that they have to pay. For all of these reasons I am concerned. Finally look at the times we live in. We are now in what they call the post September 11th. This is a period of time of coming together. All over this nation there are people that associate themselves with New York and feel as one with New York. Here I ask you people who are in New York, our legislators of the State of New York, the Empire State, don't tear us apart. Don't break up the relationship that we've had all these years. Thank you for listening. SENATOR SKELOS: Paula. After Paula will be Assemblywoman Rhoda Jacobs and then Solomon Krantz. MS. BOWEN: Good morning ladies and gentlemen. My name is Paula Bowen and I am a 22 year resident of Starrett City in the 19th Senate District. During this time I have seen not only my immediate community grow in numbers, but its surrounding areas of East New York, Brownsville, Canarsie and East Flatbush as well. This increase had resulted in the development of a viable community whose residents share political, social, economic and cultural commonalities. The new lines proposed by the New York State Legislative Task Force on Demographic Research and Reapportionment for Senate District 19 would only serve to upset and up end a very homogenous balance. My community, a minority community has a united political voice. My community, a minority community has one Senator sensitive to its needs. My community, a minority community would have its political voice diluted. The proposed districts that include Manhattan Beach, Gravesend and Brighton Beach would result in residents whose interests are at opposite ends of the spectrum. Additionally parts of Canarsie and East Flatbush would be lopped off resulting in this minority community being represented by more that one Senator. Furthermore The Voting Rights Acts of 1965 clearly states that voter dilution is a violation of the law. My question to you is, is not this proposal at variance with this act? My understanding of this very important piece of legislation would seem to suggest that it is. In preparing these comments for today's hearing, the word gerrymandering came to mind. The Oxford English Dictionary describes gerrymander as "manipulation of the boundaries of an electoral district so as to favor one party or class." The proposed district lines are a case in point of blatant gerrymandering. My community, a minority community stands to have the integrity of the district threatened by the proposed lines. Overpopulating all of the New York City Senate districts while under populating all of the upstate senate districts would increase the size of the senate. It is my sincere hope that you, the members of the New York State Legislative Task Force will amend this proposal because of its inherent difficulties and that the Governor of our state will veto any redistricting plan that would seek to dilute the minority voting power of such a valuable community as the 19th Senatorial District. I thank you for affording me this opportunity to share my concerns with you. SENATOR SKELOS: Assemblywoman Jacobs. Rhoda are you here? Solomon Krantz. MR. KRANTZ: My name is Solomon Krantz. I represent the group known as Brooklyn -- SENATOR SKELOS: Before you start I just want to mention that our colleague Senator Carl Kruger is here. We welcome you Senator. MR. KRANTZ: I represent a group of seniors known as Brooklyn Wide. This is an umbrella group that has 17 individual (inaudible) throughout Brooklyn. As a senior citizen who loves the community and knows the issues of powers that affect the community I come here to voice my outrage. I am outraged over the plan to tear apart our neighborhoods by changing the lines of the 21st Senate District. The change will have an immediate and extremely negative impact on our community and on our lives. Governor Pataki appealed to you to help restore the district lines. Please prevent any harm now before it occurs. Afterwards it may be too late. Those who will be hurt by this plan will be the people of the 21st Senate District. The average man or woman who depends upon the services delivered by the 21st Senate District and that district may obtain the quality of our lives. On a day to day basis our special needs will be addressed in a far different or more and convoluted manner. In your entitlement program that assists so many in our community will have a much harder time reaching the people they are supposed to help. The poor, elderly, the frail and the sick and homebound (inaudible) will suffer because of the (inaudible) plan. I slightly hope not. Instead of speaking with one voice our community will be split among many weaker voice if these proposed district lines are somehow allowed to remain. The purpose of redistricting is not to toss together the neighborhoods with little or nothing in common. That is exactly what will happen if this plan is not withdrawn. Basically it will be more harder to cover because there will be a greater number of interests involved. The 21st Senate District as it now is designed represents what districts by law are supposed to be, compact, contiguous and representing natural community boundaries. This definition is violated under the new redistricting plans. This plan does not accommodate, accomplish governments, mandate to secure and serve the people in the most effective manner possible. One more point let's see. My neighbors and I deserve better than what the Legislative Task Force on Reapportionment comes up with. The new district lines simply make no sense. I see no logic in the fact that according to the new proposal residents of Manhattan Beach will now be linked on the district with people all the way over in East New York. That's like being in Manhattan, and Brownsville. People who live on Strickland Avenue in Mill Basin will now be connected with residents on Tilden Avenue. You know that's a different town. By the same token we fail to meet the advantage of having Brighton Beach residents share a senate district with people that may be across the Verrazano Bridge. That's bringing Staten Island back into Brooklyn. They were separated years ago. Today I don't think it should be happening. Where is the sense of having people in Gerritsen Beach and Marine Park connected with people in Bay Ridge, several miles away? The new district lines basically are made up of neighborhoods that fall under the jurisdiction of several different police precincts. Several different community boards. Several different affected school boards. History demonstrates why the current district to remain the way they are. The 1980's the bold and innovative (inaudible) was advocated. There are many people today who remember those days. I am one of them. I hit 85 tomorrow. Before (inaudible) the city community boards and police precincts are different neighborhood boundaries. These fragmentations of our communities have made it harder for our community boards and the police to do their job properly. Making community board lines and police precinct lines alternative or the same help to simplify the work of government. It has proven better for everyone involved. Most importantly to the families, the seniors and everyone that chooses to live and work in this great city. Redrawing the lines of District 21 and Senate 21 and other districts will only complicate government once again. With so many entitles to contend with, school boards, community board, police precincts, fire departments, the needs of one neighborhood will fall through the cracks as the needs of other different (inaudible). I think that's enough. My five minutes are up. SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you very much sir. Pauline Bilus. Number 38 Pauline are you here? After is Ira Bilus. Then Lisa Feinstein. MS. BILUS: Thank you for giving us the opportunity to address you today. My name is Pauline Bilus. I am an Officer of the Manhattan Beach Jewish Center and a board member of the Manhattan Beach Community Group involved with our local organization The Holocaust Memorial Committee as well. I am appealing to you today, Governor Pataki to help restore our district lines. As someone who loves the Manhattan Beach community and knows the issues and problems that affect my neighbors and me everyday we are hear to voice our outrage. I am angry and extremely disturbed over the plan to tear apart our neighborhoods and isolate the community Manhattan Beach by changing the lines of the 21st Senate District. This radical change will have an immediate and extremely, extremely negative impact on our community and on our lives. Right now for example the 21st Senate District is home to many of the highest performing elementary and intermediate schools in Brooklyn. Maintaining the current quality of our schools in the face of constant budgetary threats is a major and time consuming challenge. Doing so however is important so that we can keep our communities desirable. It is difficult to imagine trying to deal with the needs of three or four school districts at the same time. Each with it's own set of issues and problems. Unfortunately however it is not hard to imagine the excellent schools suffering as a result. That is something that none of us want to see. History demonstrates why the current district lines should remain the way they are. As we heard recently the 1980's a bold and innovative move called co- terminality was advocated. There are many people here today who remember those days. Making community board lines and police precinct lines coterminous or the same help to simplify the workings of government. It is proven beneficial to everyone involved most importantly to the families and seniors and everyone who chooses to live and work in this great city. Rejoin the 21st Senate District and other districts will only complicate government once again. Which neighborhood are we planning to drop today? Mill Basin. Next Midwood. After that should we drop Sheepshead Bay? Gerritsen Beach. I don't think we'll have any volunteers in this room. The Governor and legislative leadership got it wrong when they came up with their redistricting plan. They looked at numbers not neighborhoods. They acted as technicians without any inclining of the human element and common interests that make a community tick. It is a bad plan that was concocted without heart and certainly without sole. The neighborhoods in the 21st Senate District are among the best in the city. We are thriving with real estate prices, skyrocketing despite a fragile economy. Families are buying and renting here at a record rate. Our shopping strips and commercial areas, Emmons Avenue, Kings Highway, Nostrand Avenue, Avenue U and many others are burgeoning. These are compelling reasons why the neighborhoods of the 21st District must remain united and strong. When families set down roots in Manhattan Beach, Mill Basin, Midwood, Marine Park, Gerritsen Beach and Sheepshead Bay they are putting their trust in our borough, city and state. The residents of our neighborhoods trust that New York City and State will provide them the best in day to day services that will enable them to remain here and thrive. Breaking up neighborhoods will diminish the delivery of these services. It is truly a betrayal of trust. Pure and simple. Redrawing the 21st Senate District and other district lines is a very poorly designed plan. This plan will damage a system that is both accessible and effective for the people that government is supposed to serve. The people of our communities. This plan undermines everything Brooklyn stands for even it's motto In Unity there is Strength. Generations come and generations go. Brooklyn's communities must remain together. They define us. Our communities are our past and our future and they cannot be carved up like a Thanksgiving turkey. We ask you and Governor Pataki to please help us by keeping the 21st Senate District together. If something works you don't change it simply for the sake of changing it. This plan benefits no one and must be withdrawn. Thank you. SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you. I called Ira is he also? MR. BILUS: Good morning ladies and gentleman. My name is Ira Bilus. I am a President and founding member of the Holocaust Memorial Committee of Brooklyn, a member of Manhattan Jewish Center and of Manhattan Beach Community Group. I have been a resident of Manhattan Beach for 39 years, Prior to that I was a resident of Brighton Beach for 30 years. The 21st Senate District as it is now designed represents what districts by law are supposed to be. As was said earlier, an earlier speaker, it has to be compact, contiguous and representing natural community boundaries. According to the new lines residents of Manhattan Beach will now be linked as a district with the neighborhoods of East New York and Brownsville. This definition is clearly violating under the new redistricting proposal. This fact is especially glaring when you look at the proposed 19th Senate District which would include the community of Manhattan Beach. What makes Manhattan Beach contiguous with others? The answer is simply water. There are no people. Just possibly a few mermaids. But mostly water. The purpose of redistricting must not be thrown together with neighborhoods with little or nothing in common. Yet that is exactly what will happen if this plan is not withdrawn. Districts will be harder to govern because there will be greater number of interests involved. Lastly I want to say simply to this task force and the legislature and to Governor Pataki that I appeal to you to restore our district lines. I appeal to you to prevent any harm before it occurs. I appeal to you that the people of Manhattan Beach and the rest of, all the rest of the people of the 21st District clearly deserve better. I thank you for your patience. SENATOR SKELOS: Marty Markowitz. MR. MARKOWITZ: Thank you Senator Skelos and Senator Dollinger, Assemblyman Parment and members of the redistricting commission. As I look up and speak and look at you right now I went through several reapportionments myself. I've had a chance to look at this. This is not our best day. That's why I am here this morning. First off I want to welcome you to the City Hall of Brooklyn. This is Brooklyn City Hall. This is Brooklyn's building. To our residents of Brooklyn please come back and visit often here at Borough Hall this is your building. And to our guests from outside of Brooklyn you are always welcome. If I may. The 2000 United State Census documented what most New Yorkers have been noticing for years. That New York City is more crowded than ever. In fact the census found that during the 1990's New York City's population surged 9%. The census also revealed that upstate's population hardly grew at all. Unfortunately the district lines proposed by the senate majority in the redistricting proposal that we are discussing totally ignored these demographic development. And failed to give us the proportional increase and representation that we richly deserve especially in Brooklyn. If the senate were to remain in 61 seats and New York City were to receive the additional seats which it is entitled there would be a proportional shift in the senate representation towards New York City. The senate majority proposal and in my opinion avoids giving downstate it's rightful apportionment by increasing the size of the senate to 62. Therefore upstate is sparred any loss. The senate majority proposal over populates every district in New York City. Southern Westchester and Rockland County. And under-populates every upstate district. The excess population of the downstate districts would be almost enough to create another democratic seat. Not only would this scheme dilute downstate representation the concentration of over-populated districts downstates would be rationally discriminatory. These districts contain 77% of the state's African American voting age population. 81% of the Asian American voting age population. 82% of the Latino voting age population. The senate majority proposal dilutes the voting power of people of color no matter how the districts within the region are drawn. The senate majority plan does further damage to Brooklyn in particular. Which is my best and is my world. It's the basic principle of legislative apportionment that districts should be drawn as compactly as possible. Encompassing communities that are geographically proximate and that therefore can work together closely together with their senator on common problems. Senators know and I was one of them for 23 years before being elected as the Borough President, about the importance of a compact district in affective representation. Nonetheless the senate majority geographically fragments three senate districts that are currently relatively compact. Within the proposal the 19th the 20th, 22nd and 23rd Districts major population centers, would be separated for miles connected only by water, highways and very narrow population corridors. To be brief. The 19th District covers the eastern part of Canarsie and Starrett City, East New York and Brownsville. It continues for several miles through the waters of Jamaica Bay and the ocean and comes ashore suddenly to include Manhattan Beach and Brighton Beach. I have to tell you there are geniuses at work that if they weren't a reapportionment they probably would make the greatest artist the world has ever seen. The proposal breaks the current very compact 19th District into two geographically separate communities. With very different problems. Different civic groups and different community leaders. This shows in my opinion contempt for voters in both ends of the proposed district. 22nd. The proposed 22nd Senate District takes in all of Bay Ridge, Dyker Heights and parts of Bensonhurst. That's great. Then a narrow corridor only a block wide in some stretches connects these communities to Gravesend, Gerritsen Beach, Marine Park, and Old Mill Basin. The senate majority proposal strings together from one end of the Brooklyn all the way to the other end of the Brooklyn to bring these two neighborhoods that share very little in terms of their state representation together in a district that would be none compact to say the least. It is clear that the 22nd district was not drawn with the best interests of the communities in mind. The 23rd District proposed. This district includes Brighton Beach, west of Ocean Parkway, Coney Island, Seagate and a small part of Bensonhurst. Okay then it proceeds several miles along the Belt Parkway before picking up portions of Borough Park, Sunset Park. Again the senate majority has strung together distant neighborhoods whose residents will find it difficult to work together on common causes. The proposal further fragments into three portions. A district that has already been split into Brooklyn and Staten Island into sections. Let me just in conclusion. Far too many Brooklynites, far too many Brooklynites do not know who represents them in the senate. That's true by the way. But by creating districts with widely desperate and distant communities that are only connected by thin strands of land the senate majority plan will result in more confusion and more alienation from our government. I think it's the benefit of all of us that serve the public that those that we serve know who serves them. That's when government works best. When the elected officials know and the communities know. So in my opinion the task force should seek to encourage not discourage citizen participation on government. I urge the task force to reject these proposed new senate districts. It wouldn't be the first time in our experience Senator that a first plan was not the final plan. Push this away. Let's redo it again and give Brooklyn what it richly deserves. Thank you. SENATOR SKELOS: The next witness is Lisa Feinstein. Is Lisa here? That's number 40 and 41 Gloria Miller. Is Gloria here? MS. FEINSTEIN: Hi I am Lisa Feinstein. President of (inaudible) Manhattan Brighton Beach. As someone who serves the senior citizens population and knows the unique issues and problems that affect these individuals I am here today to my voice my outrage. I am outraged over the plan to teat apart our neighborhoods by changing the lines of the 21st Senate District. This change will have an immediate and extremely negative impact on the senior citizen community and on our lives. Those who will be hurt by this plan will be the people of the 21st Senate District. The average man and woman who depends on the service provided by the 21st Senate District to maintain the quality of their lives. The 21st Senate District includes one of the largest senior citizen populations in all of New York State. With the 21st Senate District divided their voting strength will be weakened. This is not a voting block to be reckoned with. As one who administers to the needs of senior citizens I foresee another problem that addresses their special needs and day to day quality of life. Seniors depend on a number of entitlement programs that assist them in obtaining rent increase exemptions. Help in paying home heating bills and so forth. Right now the seniors I see every day know they can go to one legislator's office to obtain help in applying for these program. With the 21st Senate District broken up this will no longer be the case. These entitlement programs will have a much harder time reaching the people they are supposed to help. Help will be dulled out in far different and more convoluted manner and that is a shame. Are the poor elderly, the frail, the sick and homebound supposed to suffer because of the redistricting plan? I certainly hope not. Instead of speaking with one voice our community will be split among many weaker voices if these proposed district lines are somehow allowed to remain. The purpose of redistricting is not to toss together neighborhoods with little or nothing in common. Yet that is exactly what will happen if this plan is not withdrawn. Districts will be harder to govern because there will a greater number of interests involved. The 21st Senate District as it is not designed represents what districts by law are supposed to be. Compact, contagious and representing natural community boundaries. This definition is violated under the new redistricting proposal. Senior citizens and everyone in the 21st Senate District deserve better than what the Legislative Task Force on reapportionment came up with. The new district lines simply make no sense. They link Manhattan Beach with East New York and Brownsville. People in Mill Basin will be connected to residents in East Flatbush. Brighton Beach will share a senate district with the north shore of Staten Island. Sheepshead Bay, Kings Bay, Kings Highway and the Madison area will share a district with Borough Park. Gerritsen Beach and Marine Park will be connected to Bay Ridge. Under the new district lines districts would be made up of neighborhoods that fall under the jurisdiction of several different police precincts. Several different community boards and several different school districts. With so many entities to contend with the needs of one neighborhood will fall through the cracks as needs of another very different constituency are being met. Someone will surely suffer. Unfortunately the senior citizens of the 21st Senate District will be among the casualties. Brooklyn's communities must remain together. They define us. Our communities like our senior citizens are our past and our future. This plan benefits no one and must be withdrawn. Thank you very much. SENATOR SKELOS: Gloria Miller. Number 41. After Gloria will be Renee Hauser and then Marvin Epstein. MS. MILLER: Good morning ladies and gentlemen. I thank you for the opportunity to speak about an issue that is important to me personally and my community. My name is Gloria Miller and I live in East Flatbush. I have lived in this community for 30 years. I am a member of Community Board 17 and the chairperson of the Social Service and Mental Health Committee. I am extremely active in my community and with the help of Senator Sampson I have been able to get an awful lot done including monitoring the senior citizen centers in the area, in the neighborhood. It is very, very important that these districts are kept in tact as they are now. I am very upset about the district lines that have been proposed by the New York City Legislative Task Force and Demographic Research and Reapportionment. My views also express the beliefs of those who are also in the audience but are not scheduled to speak. The new lines will split my community and dilute my vote and my political voice. I believe that we must continue to maintain the political and economic influence of minority communities. I am here to strongly urge the state legislature and the Governor to reject the proposed lines. Our current communities have common interests. I am very happy that Canarsie, Brownsville and East Flatbush have a united political voice. It is the voice of my friends and neighbors and my family. People in my community that I see everyday. That I talk to everyday that ask me questions. What's going on in the community that I am able to tell them because I am able to visit the offices of Senator John Sampson. People that I care about. Issues that affect them also affect me. Important issues such as crime prevention, housing and education in the local community. These are the issues that can be addressed by one senator advocating our on behalf. My community should continue to be represented by one senator in a compact district that has not been gerrymandered and I think someone prior has explained Webster's Dictionary definition of what gerrymandering means. It is an absolute slap in the face to our community. We do mot like it. The lines proposed for our 19th Senate District by the Legislative Task Force on Reapportionment destroy the voice of our community by extending the district for miles lines through the water attaching Canarsie, East New York and Brownsville to the distant areas of Manhattan Beach, Brighton Beach and Gravesend. I don't even know them, where they are, while taking Canarsie and East Flatbush and slicing them each of these communities in half. These minority communities should not be represented by more than one senator. We have a senator. His name is Senator John Sampson. We intend to keep that senator. That's the senator we voted for. This would dilute our voting power. My neighbors and I have a little if anything in common with areas like Brighton Beach, Gravesend and Manhattan Beach. It is very unfair to divide a united community with a common interest and goals and dilute it's political voice. I believe that the proposed lines illegally dilute the voting power and the influence of minority voters by increasing the size of the Senate and by overpopulating all of the New York City Senate districts while under-populating all of the upstate Senate districts. Even as a layperson I believe the proposed districts violate the Voting Rights Act of 1965. Therefore I strongly urge the legislature and the Governor to reject the proposed district lines and preserve my community and the political voice in which I have a say. Thank you very, very much for this opportunity. SENATOR DOLLINGER: Gloria before you leave could you just answer me one question? Is Community Board 17 entirely within Senator Sampson's district now? MS. MILLER: Yes it is. SENATOR DOLLINGER: Is it entirely within the new district as well or is a part of, is it also -- MS. MILLER: Well it wouldn't be. SENATOR DOLLINGER: If the new district line, the proposed district line that has been advanced in this -- MS. MILLER: Right now it is in Senator Sampson's district. SENATOR DOLLINGER: But would it be chopped up under the new plan? MS. MILLER: It would be chopped up. SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay. Thank you. MS. MILLER: Thank you for asking the question because as I sat there as a psychotherapist I was watching the faces and the different expression in each face and I kind of get impressions that the deal is already done. SENATOR DOLLINGER: No it's not. MS. MILLER: I hope it isn't. I really hope it isn't. I hope you take us seriously. I don't have time to waste. Thank you. SENATOR SKELOS: Renee Hauser. Then Marvin Epstein. Then Rabbi Harry Korenblit. MS. HAUSER: I hope all you gentleman have good hearing. That's the first thing. My name is Renee Hauser. I am democratic state committee woman. I am district leader in the 41st Assembly District (inaudible) now almost 22 years. Never, never in all the years I have been in politics. I have been a leader for 22 years but I have been in politics longer. I have never seen such a horrific. I never saw it. I don't know who made it up. It sounded like it came out of the movie that Jack Nicholson was in One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest. I am here today to express my outrage at several aspects of the legislative redistricting plan proposed by the task force on reapportionment. This plan tears apart the 21st Senate District and has no apparent benefit for anyone it is supposed to serve. It is gerrymandering in the worst way. The existing 21st Senate District represents what districts by law are supposed to be. Compact, contiguous and representing natural community boundaries. With the new plan this definition was thrown out the window. My neighbors and I deserve better. According to the proposal people living north of Avenue I in neighborhoods like Sheepshead Bay, Kings Bay, Kings Highway and the Madison area will share a senate district with Borough Park. People in Mill Basin will be linked to East Flatbush. People in Gerritsen Beach and Marine Park will be connected to Bay Ridge. Brighton Beach will share a senate district with the north shore of Staten Island. Perhaps most amazingly Manhattan Beach will be linked with East New York and Brownsville. Neighborhoods that aren't even contiguous to Manhattan Beach on a map. When you divide a district in this manner the results are negative and destructive. A community's voting strength is diluted. Special needs are addressed in a more difficult manner and the programs that help the poor and the elderly have a harder time reaching the people that they are supposed to help. This reapportionment plan creates districts out of hodge podge of neighborhoods with nothing in common. Districts become harder to govern of the greater number of interests involved. Under the proposal districts are made up of neighborhoods served by several different police precincts, community boards and school districts. There are inherent difficulties in this. Included in the 21st Senate District for example are many of the best schools in Brooklyn. Keeping these schools high quality takes a lot of time and effort. It is hard to imagine trying to deal with the needs of three or four school districts at the same time. Each with its own set of issues and problems. So what will happen? The best schools will suffer. Almost 20 years ago a move to simplify government was advocated. That move was called co-terminality. Before co-terminality the city's community boards and police precincts had different neighborhood boundaries. This made it harder for the community boards and police to do their jobs. Making community board lines and police precinct lines, co-terminus or the same has helped everyone. Most importantly the people who choose to live and work in this great city. Redrawing the 21st Senate District and other districts will only complicate government. With so many school districts, community boards, police precincts to contend with, the needs of one neighborhood will be shunted aside as the needs of another neighborhood are being met. And entire communities will suffer. I am proud that the neighborhoods in the 21st District are among the best in the city. With the high property values and thriving shopping, commercial areas on Emmons Avenue, Kings Highway, Nostrand Avenue, Avenue U among many others. These are important reasons why the neighborhoods of the 21st District must remain as one. Please help us by keeping the 21st Senate District together. This plan gentlemen must be withdrawn. I thank you for listening. ASSEMBLYMAN ORTLOFF: May I ask you a question? Would you come back for a question? Mr. Chairman may I? Your experience in politics is impressive so if you will permit me to ask you a question about the principle that you are advocating here. I take it that your principle of co-terminality or at least trying to keep communities of interest is a universal one. Not just in Brooklyn. Am I correct? I'm asking her sir. Your principle is, if it's principle it should apply everywhere right? In other words you shouldn't excuse what's happening in one part of the state by doing it to another part of the state. Would it surprise you to learn that upstate there are 26 assembly districts that are cut up the way you are describing. That 26 incumbent members of the assembly upstate and on Long Island are lumped together into districts that go from hundreds of miles from one place to another. You talk about communities that you don't know and other people have. I really relate to this. I would ask you if you would. Address your concerns in an ecumenical way to the benefit of the people upstate as well as the people of Brooklyn. MS. HAUSER: Yes I would. ASSEMBLYMAN ORTLOFF: Thank you very much. SENATOR SKELOS: Marvin Epstein. Is Mr. Epstein here? We are doing very, very well. The only thing again I would ask if we could try to keep the testimony to five minutes and if anybody has testimony they would like to submit they are more than welcome to do it. Mr. Epstein is number 43 and we 192 scheduled witnesses. Mr. Epstein. MR. EPSTEIN: Mr. Chairman good morning. I have a theme that I would like to express. The theme is if it's works and is not broken leave it alone. My name is Marvin Epstein. I am the President of Temple Sholom, an influential and service synagogue in Mill Basin. As someone who is active in our community I am here today to express the outrage over the plan to tear apart our neighborhoods by changing the lines of our (inaudible) of the 21st Senate District. I fear the impact that this plan will have on Brooklyn's Jewish community. I appeal to you to prevent any harm before it occurs. Those who will be hurt include the thousands of members of the Jewish community and everyone else in the 21st Senate District. This plan does not protect our neighborhoods, our community's common interest or our special needs. This plan rips our communities apart and for no good reason at all. My neighbors and I deserve better than what the Legislative Task Force on Reapportionment came up with. The new district lines simply make no sense. Having this hearing implies that the task force could be prevailed upon to make changes. You must realize that our communities are being torn asunder. May I suggest that our borough President Marty Markowitz would be very pleased to take you on a tour of Brooklyn so that you can actually see one on one what's happening to our communities or what our communities look like. I feel that the 21st Senate District being divided this way our voting strengths will be weakened. In a community divided this way our special needs will be addressed in a far different and more convoluted manner. I ask you what will be accomplished by going through this new plan? Nothing except a divided community and resentful public. Is this the sort of city we hope to live in? Under the plan put forth by the task force on reapportionment whole communities will suffer. In my opinion the legislative leadership made a terrible mistake when they came up with the redistricting plan. The mistake was avoiding the notion of common sense. I am very proud to be a member of the 21st District and live in Mill Basin for the past 42 years. The neighborhoods in this district Midwood, Manhattan Beach, Mill Basin and others are among the jewels of Brooklyn. The residents of our neighborhoods trust that New York City and state will provide them the best in day to day services that will enable them to remain here and thrive. Breaking up neighborhoods will only hurt the delivery of these services. According to the law districts are supposed to represent natural community boundaries and people who are united by common interests. That is what the 21st Senate District does now. Redrawing the 21st Senate District and other district lines is a poorly designed plan. This plan will damage a system that is both accessible and effective for the people that the government is supposed to serve, the people of our communities. To repeat if something works you don't change it simply for the sake of changing it. The plan benefits no one and must be withdrawn. Thank you. SENATOR DOLLINGER: Dean can I just ask -- SENATOR SKELOS: Sir we have a question. SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. Epstein would you just come back to the podium for one second? How big is Temple Sholom, families? MR. EPSTEIN: We have almost members, 400 families. SENATOR DOLLINGER: 400 families. MR. EPSTEIN: Right. SENATOR DOLLINGER: My question is what percentage of those families live in the 21st Senate District as it is currently configured? MR. EPSTEIN: Everyone. SENATOR DOLLINGER: Everyone. It is a small community that lives exclusively in Mill Basin or largely in Mill Basin. MR. EPSTEIN: Within the confines. Some of them live in Canarsie, Marine Park, Mill Basin, Georgetown and Bergen Beach. SENATOR DOLLINGER: Is it fair to say that most of the congregation of that Temple resides in the current 21st Senate District? MR. EPSTEIN: Right. SENATOR DOLLINGER: And if the new proposal were put in place would the same concentration of your congregation live in a single senate district or would they be split up? MR. EPSTEIN: I believe that it would be yes. But the leadership would be different. As everyone has expressed here the problems that are facing all of these communities, what's good for community A certainly is not good for community B and vice a versa. That's what's important not where people necessarily live or will be affected by the 21st or any other district. SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay. That's one of our concerns is that we take communities that have natural linkages and put them together. We have heard a lot of testimony today that the current plan does not do that. MR. EPSTEIN: Correct. SENATOR DOLLINGER: I'm just trying to determine with respect to the specific community that you represent here a congregation of a religious organization to what extent are you splintered or affected by the new plan versus the old plan. MR. EPSTEIN: Well you would be destroying Jewish communities. You would be expanding, I shouldn't; say destroying it but you would be weakening it. You would be diluting it if I may with communities that have nothing in common with the practice of Judaism. SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay. MR. EPSTEIN: Thank you. SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you. SENATOR SKELOS: Rabbi Harry Korenblit. RABBI KORENBLIT: Good afternoon. It's Rabbi Ali Korenblit. Members of the committee, elected officials. First Assemblyman Hedge if I may address a question you had before. I'll get back to it later. I admire your dignified composures as these proceedings go on and on. I most especially admire this wonderful exercise of democracy by these wonderful citizens of this great state. There isn't anything that I can say that you may not have heard or will not hear. There are so many adjectives, adverbs, verbs that have been banted about. Gerrymandering, redistricting. It's a crime etc., etc. From the standpoint of law you are all experts. You know what the law reads and you have heard it here countless times. Because there is a perpetration in upstate than one can consider strange map of a district doesn't mean that it has to perpetrate any place else Assemblyman Hedge. A wrong doesn't give any excuse or anything positive to perpetrate another wrong. Certainly the assembly should consider making sure that all districts follow the standards that have been established by law. But from the standpoint of law you have heard over and over again what the law reads. I am reminded of one thing, Endura Gandhi when she was Prime Minister of India twice at one time disbanded law. One of the citizens of India went into a bookstore looking for a copy of the Constitution. The owner of the store said sorry we don't carry periodicals here. When you tamper with law then our law becomes no different than a periodical. Everyone here knows what the law is. This is clearly a violation of law. From the standpoint of affecting their citizens which the law is intended for. Certainly you have heard over and over again how those that are so well represented currently will be, because of someone's wisdom, not served anymore, underserved or in a sense counted out from our wonderful democracy. I hope and trust that you will exercise wise judgment. I hope and trust that you will reconsider this terrible division for the citizens of this wonderful state. Thank you. SENATOR SKELOS: Carmine Carro number 45. After that is Ronnie Birnbaum and Larry Birnbaum. MR. CARRO: If you gentlemen and ladies haven't done it already. (Inaudible) some of these representative outside to see what's going on out there. There are I think about 1,000 people out there. Not everybody can fit into this room. I like other people have a prepared text. Okay. I felt it was important enough to use this text. My name is Carmine Carro which isn't important. What is important is that I am the President of Marine Park Civic Association and I represent 3,500 families. 3,500 families that vote. All right. We are not happy. At the last meeting of the Marine Park, by the way I also sit as Vice Chairman of the Community Board 18 and I also sit on the School Board of District 22. I know all the instances that people have madder, what it's going to do to the Community board and the school board. I am not going to dread this. I am just going to tell you what I feel. Because I think I speak better. The people that know me I speak from my heart and I tell you what I feel. At the last meeting of the Marine Park Civic Association one of the reporters from the local newspaper came up to me and as President he gave me that privilege to ask me what you do you think of the new redistricting plan? I told him in two words what I think of this plan, it stinks. Okay? Take that back to Albany and while you're at it you see all the yellow hats running around here? I would appreciate it, I don't know which one of you gentleman or lady want to accept this. Bring this back to Governor Pataki. We vote in Marine Park. We're there. We're not going away and we want to maintain our senatorial district as it is. I am just going to read the last paragraph of this prepared statement because Marty Markowitz, your former colleague and our Borough President now said it better than any of us could have said it. All the other people that are here said more than I could possibly say. I think this last line is pretty good. Breaking up our neighborhoods that belong together, the neighborhoods of the existing 21st District would diminish the delivery of these services. The services that we all need to work. It will damage the system that works. It will damage the system that works. If it ain't broke don't fix it. The plan must be withdrawn. We are not requesting that you redefine it. This plan stinks. Take that to Governor Pataki along with the hat. Thank you. SENATOR SKELOS: Ronnie Birnbaum. Ronnie Birnbaum then Larry Birnbaum then Ari Nakkab. Is Ronnie Birnbaum here? Larry Birnbaum. MR. BIRNBAUM: How are you guys, As someone who feels strongly about the Mill Basin community and knows the issues and problems that affect my neighbors and I everyday I am here to voice my anger over the plan to change the lines of the 21st Senate District and threaten the future of one of Brooklyn's greatest neighborhoods. The 21st Senate District now represents what districts by law are supposed to be. Compact, contiguous and representing natural community boundaries. According to the new district lines however this is all changed. Residents of my neighborhood in Mill Basin have been ripped apart by a natural and local logical neighbors in Marine Park and have been connected instead to a district that extends all the way to Tilden Avenue in East Flatbush. A district with its own separate problems and it's own challenges. With the 21st Senate District divided into many different pieces our voting strength will be diluted. Our special concerns will addressed in a more complicated manner if at all. This reapportionment plan throws together neighborhoods with nothing in common. Districts will be hard to govern because there will be a greater number of interests involved. Under the proposal districts are made up of neighborhoods served by several different police precincts, community boards and school districts. Mill Basin for instance includes one of the highest performing elementary schools in New York City, P.S. 236. I was an attendee of that school and a graduate. Maintaining the highest quality of this school is a major challenge. Doing so however is important so that we can keep Mill Basin community desirable. How will an elected official juggle the needs of this and other high performing schools and the needs of many struggling and low performing schools at the other end of this district? P.S. 236 will suffer as a result and that is something that none of us wants to see. With so many school districts, community boards, police precincts to contend with, the needs of one neighborhood will easily fall through the cracks as the needs of another constituency are being met. When families set down roots in Mill Basin they had faith that New York City and State will provide them the best in day to day care, services that will enable them to remain here and thrive. Breaking up neighborhoods will diminish the delivery these services and damage a system that is accessible and effective for the people that government is supposed to serve. This plan must be withdrawn. Thank you. SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you. Ari Nakkab. Ari are you here? Rabbi Greenwald. RABBI GREENWALD: I have been listening intently to the testimony of the witnesses as you have had. I have yet to hear one person who would speak in favor of this plan. I am outraged by it as is my community. I am 38 year resident of Manhattan Beach. I am rabbi of Sephardic Congregation in Manhattan Beach. I happen to be first Vice Chairman of Community Board 15. I do not speak for them. I speak for my congregation, my congregates and myself as a long term resident. Much of what I wanted to say was already said. And said quite properly and forcefully especially by neighbors and friends from Manhattan Beach. I am trying to see how this proposal fulfills anything positive. Perhaps it meets with the strict requirements of the law and reapportionment and redistricting in terms of numbers. In terms of the spirit of the Constitution of the United State, the State of New York and the will of the legislature to maintain democracy and services to the people it totally fails. The criteria that was mentioned before are not being met. Not continuity, not contiguity, not maintaining the services of the elected officials who are representing the people. It will be very difficult for a representative to represent that portion of north Brooklyn together with Manhattan Beach. All that connects them are a line on the water in a contiguous. People expect their legislators to help them with delivery of services and solving problems. They want to go to their offices and meet with them. The legislators themselves have to know the community and be responsive to the needs of the community. You are taking Manhattan Beach and you are connecting it, it will be such a small part of this new district that you are creating that whoever who will represent us will not be sensitive to our needs as is the present. His office and staff will not be accessible to the people. This proposal is wrong. It's not going anywhere. It should be withdrawn totally. Thank you. SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you. Kalmen Yeager. Assemblywoman Adele Cohen after that. MR. YEAGER: Good afternoon members of the task force. My name is Kalmen Yeager. I am a resident of the Midwood section of Brooklyn. Though I am a member of Community Board 22 and serve on the Board of Directors of the Nodingham Association, an 80 year old community civic group I come before you today in none of those capacities. I am here today in my capacity as a life long Brooklynite. The beachfront communities of Manhattan and Brighton Beaches, Sheepshead Bay and Coney Island all share similar concerns and in almost all respects the same elected representatives, community districts, school districts and/or police precincts. Yet they have been inexplicably separated and thrust into proposed senate districts anchored far away. Manhattan Beach and Sheepshead Bay are outrageously attached to proposed Senate District 19 which stretches from east New York. Brighton Beach and Coney Island have been attached to proposed Senate District 22 which includes a third of Staten Island. Other than the $6 toll that separate the two what possible similarities are there between the Belt Parkway and the Staten Island Expressway? Other than proposed District 19 what possible connection would Manhattan Beach have with East New York? The school districts, community districts, police precincts are not shared. No elected official other than state senator would have similar boundaries. Proposed District 21 rips across Brooklyn from Prospect Park to the waterfront communities of Mill Island and Bergen Beach dragging along neighborhoods like Kensington, Ditmas Park, Canarsie and parts of East Flatbush in its wake. In the most peculiar shape of all proposed District 22 tornados across Brooklyn from Bay Ride on one end to Marine Park on the other. There is nothing in common between any of the communities encompassed in the proposed district. In fact at one point in it's wanderings this proposed district travels for more than a mile with a span of a couple of hundred years between the north and south boundaries. Where contiguous, sensible and thoughful district lines could have been drawn they were not. Instead thoughtless and destructive lines were drawn ripping neighborhoods apart and leaving destroyed communities by the wayside. This problem permeates throughout our city. In Manhattan for example the upper west side community has been divided in two with one part attached to a district that runs into Washington Heights and the other part attached by a sliver to neighborhoods in the Bronx like Van Cortland Park. Perhaps if all these districts bulge in and out grabbing a block here and a neighborhood here, circling a park, cutting through a major commercial strip. Not a borough in this city has been sparred other than the two thirds of Staten Island contained in a single district presumably because to move it further would require annexing New Jersey. The turmoil created by the map makers could almost lead one to believe that neighborhoods were thrown into a hat and pulled out and connected at random. We all know that that is not what occurred. I have no problem with utilizing political common sense to draw the legislative districts. I have no problem with adding a new seat to the senate with a particular candidate in mind. I have no problem with one party drawing lines to protect its majority. These are not just maps of blocks, nameless faceless streets in the great metropolis. These blocks have names. They have faces. They're children in neighborhood schools. There are the elderly and senior centers. They are merchants doing business. To draw through and across neighborhoods destroys complete and contiguous in related communities. Does anyone believe for a second that the senator from east New York Manhattan Beach will have an equal interest of the going ons in both neighborhood? Or that the senator from Bay Ridge Marine Park will have the working knowledge of the needs of two very different school districts or that the Senator from the upper west 80's will have a care in the world what's happening on Jerome Avenue in the Bronx. That's not because politicians are bad. It's because that's the nature of this business. You have the base and then you have the rest of the district. When communities are contained and attached the base is the rest of the district. When they are separated and thrown about so carelessly, neighborhoods will inevitably fall by the wayside. That will affect how services are delivered, how schools are funded and how communities are represented. These maps may as well have attached Buffalo to Borough Park. Rochester to the Rockaways. Or Manhattan to Manhasset or even out of Mongolia. These lines are bad for communities. They are bad politics. They are bad for New York. I urge you to pull this proposal. Go back to the drawing board and give us districts that make sense for all New Yorkers. Thank you. SENATOR SKELOS: Assemblywoman Adele Cohen. ASSEMBLYWOMAN COHEN: My colleagues in government. Members of the task force. I am here today to speak on a different subject, the 46th Assembly District. I serve as the New York City Assemblymember from this district in southern Brooklyn. An area comprised of the neighborhoods of Brighton Beach, Coney Island and Bay Ridge. These districts include eight high rise housing developments which are managed by the New York City Housing Authority which is known as NYCHA. These eight are the only city housing developments in this part of southern Brooklyn. One half of one development has been cut out. Half of the Marlboro Houses, 2,606 people has been carved out of the proposed 46th Assembly District and the other seven and a half city housing developments. This half of a cohesive community has been placed in the proposed 47th District. This simply makes no sense. By their very nature, residents of city housing projects have a commonality of interests. Residents of these apartments managed by NYCHA have interests and problems specific to inhabitants of this type of housing. They have the same landlord. Their housing issues are significantly different from people who live in private or other regulated housing. To isolate one half of one project into a district composed of private homes and privately owned apartment buildings does them a disservice. The tenants of NYCHA housing become eligible for apartments because they fall within a specific set of guidelines. Their needs and concerns are also similar. They have like backgrounds, ambitions and aspirations and require similar services. Splitting a piece off into a dissimilar district is just plain wrong. A resident of New York City Housing Authority apartments in southern Brooklyn are overwhelming African American and Hispanic. The proposed 47th District is 82% white while the proposed 46th District is 69% white. It is clear that to maximize the influence of black and Hispanic citizens the entire Marlboro community should be in the 46th District along with the residents of the other seven NYCHA projects. Because they comprise considerable numbers the minority population maintains a strong presence in the 46th District. Separating out these 2,606 residents takes away their voice. These 2,606 people cannot tip an election. Most of them are children. Less than 600 are even registered to vote. But those 600 combined with the other African Americans and Hispanics in the 46th District comprise a powerful voting block. One that causes elected officials to be responsive. This is a block that can and often does impact on elections. In conclusion I respectfully request this task force return the half of the Marlboro Housing Development to the 46th District where it belongs. Doing so will then allow the community comprised of the eight housing authority developments in southern Brooklyn to remain in one district. Thank you for your consideration. ASSEMBLYMAN ORTLOFF: It's good to see you Adele. We are colleagues in Albany. It's always instructive and in some sense even heartwarming but certainly instructive to see another member's community and the relationship of a colleague in their own community. Adele I just want to ask you with your obvious concern and interest for including communities that belong together, have you taken a look even in a brief way at the 26th Districts upstate that have been coupled and the damage that's been done to those communities? ASSEMBLYWOMAN COHEN: I understand your questions. I have taken a look at those districts as I have the senate districts down here. I choose not to argue the point with you. However I am not talking about a district that is completely and outrageously gerrymandered. I am just here begging for my constituents to keep 2,600 of them in one little piece. ASSEMBLYMAN ORTLOFF: Please understand I don't want to argue with you. I am looking for allies. I am looking for members on the other side of the aisle who are willing to vote with us to change that plan upstate. I would appeal to you that that it will make it back to Albany. ASSEMBLYWOMAN COHEN: I once said to somebody that I had this thought that we might take the entire state and draw grid. Place the grid down on top of it then shift around the borders a little bit and redistrict that way. You could imagine the response I got. It would be interesting to try it that way. ASSEMBLYMAN ORTLOFF: It would indeed. ASSEMBLYWOMAN COHEN: Thanks. ASSEMBLYMAN ORTLOFF: Thank you. ASSEMBLYMAN PARMENT: Maxie Rubenstein. MR. RUBENSTEIN: Good afternoon. Sholom. My name is Maxie Rubenstein, I am Mr, Isreal of Brooklyn. I am Brooklyn Synagogue Chairman, Israel Bonds. UJA, (inaudible) Hospital in Jerusalem and voice town of Jerusalem. In the community I am in Sheepshead Bay 44 years. I was President of my Avenue E's Jewish Center three years for a period of ten years. At the present time I am chairman of the board. I am a member of Kings Bay Y. A member of the Jewish Community Council of Kings Bay. A member of Sheepshead Bay Holocaust Memorial Committee. A member of Community Board Number 15 and Brooklyn Borough President Jewish Heritage Committee for many years. I believe I am qualified to speak in behalf of Senator Carl Kruger who I and most people in the district feel and know here is a man that works seven days a week, 24 hours a day, dedicated to our community district. Our community, this district became an extended family. Please think about it. Don't break up our family. We have a relationship. As someone who is active in our community I am here today to voice my outrage over the plan to tear apart our neighborhoods by changing the lines of the 21st Senate District. I fear that the impact that this plan will have on Brooklyn Jewish community, Governor Pataki please I am asking you to help us. I appeal to you to prevent any harm before it occurs, to you to prevent any harm before it occurs. Those who will be hurt include thousands of members of the Jewish community and everyone else in the 21st Senate District. This plan does not protect our neighborhoods. Our community's common interest or our special needs. This plan rips our communities apart. And for no good reason at all. My neighbors and I deserve better than what the Legislative Task Force on Reapportionment came up with. This new district lines simply make no sense. There is no reason, absolutely no reason why residents of Manhattan Beach should be in the same district as people who live in East New York and in Brownsville. The only thing that connects Manhattan Beach with the rest of the proposed district is water, not people, just water. I see no sense in having people that are living in Sheepshead Bay, Kings Bay, Midwood, Kings Highway, Madison area share a senate district with those who live in the outer reaches of Borough Park. I do not understand why Brighton Beach residents must share a senate district with people on the north shore of Staten Island. I do not comprehend why people living on Strickland Avenue, Mill Basin will be connected to residents on Tilden Avenue, East Flatbush. With the 21st Senate District divided in this way our voting strength will be weakened. With the community divided this way our special needs will be addressed in a far different more convoluted manner. The entitlement programs that assist so many will have a much harder time reaching the people they are supposed to help. Were the poor, the frail, the sick and homebound supposed to suffer because of the redistricting plan? I don't think that was a good idea. I don't think that was the goal. Instead of speaking with one voice our community will be split among many weaker voices if these proposed district lines are somehow allowed to remain. Please I ask you what will be accomplished by going through with this new plan? Nothing except a divided community and a resentful public. I do not believe that the goal of redistricting is to throw together neighborhoods with little or nothing in common. Yet that is exactly what will happen if this plan is not withdrawn. Districts will be harder to govern, because there will be greater number of interests involved. Under new district lines, districts will be made up of neighborhoods that fall under the jurisdiction of several different community boards and several different school districts. Almost 20 years ago a new move was advocated in our city to simplify the workings of government. This move was called co-terminality. Before co- terminality the city's community boards and police precincts had different neighborhood boundaries. This made it harder for the community boards and police to do their jobs. Making community board lines and police precinct lines, the same help simplify government. It has benefited everyone involved most importantly families and seniors who choose to live and work in this great city. Redrawing the 21st Senate District and other districts will only complicate government. Is this the sort of city we hope to live in? Under the plan put forth by the task force on reapportionment someone is sure to suffer. In my opinion and many more active person like me the legislative leadership made a terrible mistake when they came up with their redistricting plan. Their mistake was looking at how numbers of people could form neighborhoods. They didn't see whether the numbers added up in any local way. Task force acted as technicians. Pure and simple. They forgot that there were human beings involved. They acted without any feeling for the common interest that make a community what it is. I am proud that the neighborhoods in the 21st District. Neighborhoods like Midwood, Sheepshead Bay, Manhattan Beach, Mill Basin and others are among the jewels of Brooklyn. Real estate prices all over the 21st Senate District are skyrocketing. Families buying and renting here at record rate. Our shopping strips and commercial areas are the thriving. These are important reasons why the neighborhoods of the 21st District must remain as one. When families set down roots in Mill Basin, Manhattan Beach, Midwood, Sheepshead Bay and anywhere else in this district they are putting trust in our borough Brooklyn, city and state. Breaking up neighborhoods will only the hurt the delivery of day to day services. Redrawing the 21st District and other district lines is poorly designed plan. This plan will damage a system that is both accessible and effective for the people that government is supposed to serve. The people of our communities. Brooklyn's communities must remain together. Our communities are our past and our future. The sophardic community does not wish to be ripped apart. Governor I am here today speaking not just for myself but for my Brooklyn community that I represent for so many years. Pleas help us by keeping the 21st Senate District together. Please don't break up, tear apart our extended family relationship that we have had with the dedicated Senator Carl Kruger. If something works you don't change it simply for the sake of changing it. Your plan benefits no one and must be withdrawn. Thank you for your consideration. Thank you for your cooperation. ASSEMBLYMAN PARMENT: Mike Cutler. MR. CUTLER: Good afternoon. I am going to make a brief statement. I am going to try to not repeat what I have heard expressed so eloquently by so many of my predecessors at this podium. Abraham Lincoln said a house divided cannot stand. Communities divided cannot stand either. If we allow communities, neighborhoods to be split up the way this new redistricting plan would permit or in fact would require the people that would suffer are the people that live in these communities. There is no benefit that I can see that we would gain by doing it this way. What we need to do is to consider what representative government is all about. You know we pride ourselves in living in a democracy. After 9/11 everyone pays so much attention to the fact that we do live in a democracy. We realize how many people from other countries with other political values or lack of values can't stand the fact that we have a democracy. Yet we see people not coming out to vote. There are presidential elections where fewer than 60% of the population comes out to cast a ballot. Ask yourself why. We live in the greatest country in the world and perhaps the greatest state in this country and we have a problem attracting people to come out and vote. I'll tell you that there is a high level of cynicism especially where politics is concerned. Now ask yourself where does the cynicism come from. You know they say that a camel is a horse designed by a committee. I hate to think who designed these districts that are being proposed. Lou Goldberg would be astounded at the complexities. If you want something to work you need to keep it simple. You need to keep it direct. You need to respect the fact that people have the right to be represented by people who understand their unique needs, their unique desires. Who understand their communities. This is government at its best when that occurs. If we don't respect the fact that as members of the representative government that you are all part of and that we count on where are we headed? It's important the people who represent us truly understand us. That they understand the communities. You know I am the President of the Parent Association from P.S. 206. We have 1,300 students roughly in attendance in my school. We represent many people. We try to teach the kids the values that we hold dear as people living in a democracy. I am about to retire. I have been a federal agent for 30 years and I have been called on often to speak at schools about government, about values, about law about morality. I keep telling kids realize the wonderfulness of living in a democracy where your voice can be heard. That is what makes America what it is. I have been called before the Congress to try to get laws changed. This is what democracy is about. When we fail to truly have representative democracy by ripping up communities, by making it impossible for the elected representative to know whose needs should come first because now suddenly there is a tug of war between one community and another community. I pity that elected representative. What position should he take on disparate issues? Where does he go with that? How does he do justice to all the people in the community that he is supposed to represent? It will be confusing to the elected representatives and more confusing to the people he is supposed to represent. It's a hell of a message for our kids. I tried to explain this issue to my children last night over dinner. They looked at me and said what's going on? How are people supposed to be represented when so many different communities are going to be brought together artificially to serve perhaps some political agenda? All I can say to you is that this is one of the worse plans I have ever seen. Instead of looking like a cohesive neighborhood some of these new district lines look like a raw shot test run a muck. This isn't the way to do it. It's not the way to be inclusive and to make people feel that they are truly being represented. If it goes through this way I am just concerned that you will see lower voter turnout and more people saying why bother I can't be heard. Remember a house divided against itself can't stand. These communities divided against each other I think will create chaos. I urge Governor Pataki. I urge all of you to withdraw this plan and come back with something that is workable, sensible and rational. Thank you for your time. SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. Cutler if you could just come back to the podium for one second I just want to clarify something. First of all this proposal has never been voted on by this task force. None of the six members here have voted in favor or against this plan. This has been proposed by the two chairs and I think it's important that you realize that. MR. CUTLER: Okay. SENATOR DOLLINGER: Second thing I just want you to know from my prospective. I think I am the only member on this task force whose district is almost an entirely a city. I represent, about two-thirds of the people I represent live in a city. We have all kinds of neighborhoods in our city and Strucmar (ph) in need and Corn Hill. Neighborhoods that are not the same as the neighborhoods that you describe. They have the same sense of integrity in their community. I want you to know that the factors that can influence a community based on my experience representing a city the notion of where the schools are located, where religious houses of worship whether they are temples or churches or mosques. The location of highways. The locations of body of water. Where bridges are located. All of those things affect the sense of community. That brings people together. That gives them a sense of identity. I also acknowledge that the person who represents, that is the quality of the people that represent them, the actual people who represent a community can also define the community. I just want to assure you that what you have said here today, what Mr. Rubenstein before you and what the other speakers have said here today is not lost on me. Before I cast any vote on this plan, either as a member of this task force or as a member of the state legislature the questions of what the communities are, how they define themselves and how they link themselves together would be the preeminent concern in my mind. That is true whether we are looking at Brooklyn. Whether we are looking at Rochester where I am from. Or if we are looking at communities as we discussed yesterday in Watertown New York. I just want to assure you that your comments about communities and how they link together, and I understand how the district lines will have an impact on who represents that community. And who represents it could influence its future growth and development. I understand that. I want to assure you that I understand that. Before I vote on this plan I am going to take that into account. Not only here in Brooklyn but through out this state. MT. CUTLER: I just want to thank you because I think that is very important. Homeowners invest lots of money in their houses. They are concerned with property value, quality of life, safety issues, and educational issues. The fact that you will consider that is reassuring to me. I am hopeful that all of your colleagues will similarly consider the potent ional impact that his redistricting plan has the potent ional of having on all of us. Thank you again. Have a good day. SENATOR SKELOS: Steven Mostofsky. Then Charles Finaldi after him. Then John Frederick. Welcome. MR. MOSTOFSKY: Good afternoon. My name is Steven Mostofsky. I am the President of the National Council of Young Israel which is a national synagogue organization representing 150 synagogues throughout the United States many of which happen to be in the 21st Senatorial District. I also sit as a Vice President of the Council of Jewish Organizations of Flatbush. And a member of the board of directors of the Midwood Development Council. I am also a member of Community School Board 21 here in Brooklyn. One of the main assets in our community is the fact that we have a Senator like Carl Kruger. We have a place to go for our services. We have a place to go when issues arise in our community. Our community has hundreds and I'll stick to let's say the Jewish community just for now, hundreds of institutions that are within the boundaries of this district. Schools, synagogues, brand new ones. While the City of New York and as a member of the school board I am amazed how no new public schools are being built and there is overcrowding in the schools and the schools have to be repaired. The Jewish community in Senator Kruger's district has poured in millions and millions of dollars to its institutions. Many of the issues that arise when you build a new school or a synagogue is zoning issues. The community issues that arise with neighbors and so on and so forth. Are issues that the Senator is sensitive to as someone who understands the community and he has assisted the community part of it as well as the institutional part. As you understand when you come in for a new building and an institution in a neighborhood there is always pushing and shoving. They don't want a school on the corner or a synagogue in the neighborhood. Because we have somebody who understands the entire district. Because of the fact that the district the way it exists now is representative of real community. For organizations, as you see I am on a number of organizations. We have people that serve the Jewish community, the non-Jewish community, the political community all sit on eachothers board of directors. All are involved in this community. It is a cohesive community. Basically when we need assistance we know we have one or two politicians to go to. This would change it to many more of that. We have one or two police precincts to go to. We know the address of where we need to go to for help. One of those addresses is Senator Kruger. I live in the district. My house cost me a pretty penny. We've done repairs to our house. I have a married son who chose to live in the district. I have a daughter that is getting married a week from this Sunday. She is in the process of buying a co-op in the district. The reason why my children are staying the neighborhood is because they feel that this is a neighborhood that has viability and this is a neighborhood that they can stay in and eventually raise their children in. I am afraid if we go ahead with this plan and connect these neighborhoods that have absolutely nothing to do with each other politically, socially, religiously, ethnically. All we are doing is creating a district of new lines a mish mosh that is going to help possibly some other Senatorial Districts meet the needs of the local Senator. It is definitely not going to meet the needs of our community. I would say to Senator Dollinger, I heard what you said before. I really think that some of the members should go for a ride through and see what the district looks like. On one end of the district and the other and I think if you drive through the streets without talking to anyone you would notice that these are tremendously disparate communities that aren't contiguous in reality although they may be contiguous if you draw them on a map with a line around them. I would ask you all please review the district lines as best as you can. Take into consideration the needs of the community. A community that has stayed committed to the City of New York. That has stayed committed to the State of New York. That has pumped in millions of dollars into the neighborhoods and the communities that is committed to making our neighborhoods work. Again I would say that one of the ways you are able to do that is when you have affective and considerate and understanding politicians such as Carl Kruger. I know Carl Kruger from before I was married as a child when I lived in Canarsie and he was active in the community there. Now I live in Midwood where he is the Senator. He is just as active and just as affective as he is. I would ask you to please look at these district lines carefully and see what you can to do to preserve the district as it is. I thank you very much for your time. SENATOR SKELOS: Can I ask you one question? MR. MOSTOFSKY: Yes. SENATOR SKELOS: Do you think it's important that we consider the relationship that a community has developed with their legislator? MR. MOSTOFSKY: I believe definitely. I believe that possibly and I understand if there are other issues involved and if the community, I imagine there are times when you have to change lines and you might have that in consideration. Because the elected officials, a community has moved over to the right and I don't mean politically to the right but actually geographically to the right and geographically to the left. Senator Kruger and I am going to use him as the example even though you asked it in an objective manner, is someone who understands this community because he really is a part of the community. In other words if you took a neighborhood and you could go through this whole like and the other issues were involved, the ethnic issues, the religious issues, the social issues and everything else. You would say well we have two Senators, now it's going to be one of them. You can say if the Senator lives over here and the Senator lives over there and comes from that community and comes from this community it doesn't make a difference. In this situation you put together communities that have literally nothing to do with each other other than the fact that they might be in Brooklyn. Most of the elected officials are not connected from one of these neighborhoods to the other. The counsel officials aren't. The assembly officials aren't. The school boards aren't. The police precincts aren't. You are going to split up Senator Kruger's district and bring in politicians in all accounts from communities that have no connection. SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you. Charles Finaldi. Is Mr. Finaldi here? John Frederick. Is John Frederick here? Deborah Greif. MS. GREIF: Good afternoon. My name is Deborah Greif. I wear many different hats. I do live in the 21st Senatorial District and Senator Carl Kruger is my State Senator. I am council President of the 61st Precinct Community Council. I am not representing them but I do want to say that. When you say that you change lines and you think how it will affect us. Right now since 1980 when they did the co-terminality so that we have these districts are (inaudible) it makes it a lot easier. I can tell you as a council president how much easier it is for the police to deal with issues. We don't have to go say all right these blocks now, 61st Precinct is five square miles. It's in Community Board 15. I am also a member of Community Board 15. I am not representing them either. I live in the area of Gravesend. Which is also, it depends on the map you look at. I'm either at the western end of Gravesend or the, east end of Gravesend or the western end of Sheepshead Bay. I grew up Kings Bay. By us having one state Senator we have it a lot easier than the police have to know which State Senator to deal with when we have to talk about funding through state issues. It's the same assembly. It makes it easier. It makes it easier for me, the State Senator I have to go to approach it. As counsel president I have to go and work with the different public officials. It makes it easier. I am not saying if Senator Sampson became my senator I couldn't work with him. I and the community people are not saying that. We are stating that by the way you redistricted the lines it will make it very much harder for where the person lives say, you change the blocks and I live at Ocean Parkway and Neck Road and a person who now lives on Ocean Avenue and Avenue V will have to go, their district will be, their State Senator is going to be in Staten Island. My State Senator is going to be God knows where because I don't even know. I looked at the districts and the way you broke it up. It's very hard to figure it out. I am going to have to figure out who am I going to contact. To not only explain to them the issues and problems that the community will have and with the police. I am also from the Brooklyn MRDD Council which stands for Mental Retardation Developmental Disabilities. It makes it easier that when I have to advocate for the disabled in the community I am (inaudible) which State Senator I can go to. Because I know which block, which group home needs the help. Or which they have program. Also as being the first (inaudible) of Sheepshead Bay High School it makes it so much easier that when we need help we can ask our State Senator Carl Kruger. I don't have to start saying okay is Sheepshead Bay still with State Senator Kruger or do I have to go to Senator John Sampson or Senator Seymour Lackman or am I going to be over in Staten Island. What do I do then? We have different issues. My school has a big population of children who are in wheelchairs. We're a (inaudible) school. We're the few. So it makes it easier when you know who our Senator is. We like the district lines the way they are. I understand you are saying no amount of time, you have to change the lines because of the census. I really think you should also ask us do we want our lines so drastically changed. As you say what affects us here downstate also I understand affects them upstate. I have family members that live upstate and don't want to lose their Assembly members. They are just as upset. I don't mean any disrespect but you did come down to Brooklyn here, Brooklyn issues. I have compassion for my fellow New York State residents. Because I am also a New York State resident who is also being affected. But you came to this hearing to hear Brooklyn's issues. We all know what's affecting us here. We do have compassion for people upstate. I have to be concerned honestly with my area of Brooklyn. I have to worry about my state Senator. I don't want to lose him because I will tell you as sitting as in a high executive position as in different civic positions, it makes it a lot easier when I have to explain to State Senator Kruger that Sheepshead Bay High School needs two working elevators so the students can go into the schools. I need to explain to him we need extra ramps so that the students who are brought in wheelchairs need to go in the backyard so they can participate in gym. I can find him instead of wasting days and hours to try to set up meetings with three State Senators. The same thing goes when I have to explain to him how much police protection we need and what we need in each area. (Inaudible) from the community board it makes it easier for us to explain that state issues. I would like for a vote to be taken at the four district lines you are taking but you ask the communities before you start are we happy or not. If you heard the people from East New York they don't want to be split up. I don't want to be split up. They also don't have to deal with the geographic issues. I also have a waterfront community. I have to worry about because I am an oceanfront waterfront community. I have to worry and the police have to worry because we don't know who they have to evacuate because we are going to get a big tidal wave. Which could happen. SENATOR SKELOS: Can you please start winding down because we're at the five minute level? MS. GREIF: So in the future we don't want to be changed. And we do want you to consider our needs. There is no reason to change these lines. SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you. Sarina Raffe. Is Sarina here? Alvin Berk. Is Alvin here? Sharon Brono. Is Sharon here? Edna Wildman. Is Edna here? Jeffrey Resnick. After Jeffrey is Warren Nadel, Arnold Cohen and Anton Gantz. MR. RESNICK: Good afternoon. I thank you for the time and the opportunity to speak at the hearing today. My name is Jeffrey Resnick. I am going to just name the organizations just for the matter of where I am. I am not here representing them. I am the Executive Officer of the Young Israel of Bedford Bay that's in the area. As well as the Executive Officer of the Israel Bedford Bay Senior Center. And a member of Community Board 15. I am actually speaking out not on their behalf just on my own. I was able to hear a few of the speakers that came up beforehand as well as Senator Dollinger's responses before. I do want to say that I appreciate that. The feel that you said that would come down in looking at our neighborhoods. A few speakers ago Mr. Mostofsky had said that maybe what's needed is to come down and look at our neighborhoods. One of the fastest growing communities in the area of where they are building. I think within the last five years probably about a half a dozen or more new synagogues went up in the Madison area. The homes, people are spending a lot of money to stay in that area. By looking at the redistricting lines it seems to be that you are taking neighborhoods that really have nothing in common that are very disparate and forming them together. The sense of community is really going to be lost. You know as Mr. Greif said before they tried to do something originally of co-terminality. So far that seemed to have been working. Where the lines of the police stations and the police precincts were in line with the community board. That made it much easier to govern an area, to govern a community. That made it easier for the seniors, for the people, for the community, for the residents, anybody that had special needs or anybody that had special requests or services or just needed help knew where to go. Right now to take people that live in Manhattan Beach, Kings Highway, Bedford Bay, Kings Bay, Midwood and group them with the north shore of Staten Island to me does not make sense. To split up a community it seems that it is more, not only more work but more work both in governing. Now is a time where we are trying to get less work in government. To make governing easier. I think it was Mayor Bloomberg who said he was trying to get I think a 311 number where you can basically call one area and get everybody's assistance all at once. To me this means that it's going to be more work. Well where do I live? Okay I live in this district that is a huge map going throughout all of Brooklyn. That really does not seem what the intent of the legislature was originally. Right now in looking at the lines the diverse needs of each one of the communities can't possibly be met if the redistricting goes the way it seems. For my point it looks like it was just and sort of looking at numbers as opposed to addressing the needs of the communities needs itself. When the family's set down roots, one of the other speakers said that he has a married son, they want to settle here. The people in this community it's a wonderful thing to see when the next generation wants to live here and wants to stay in the community. And is investing lots of money to do so in building houses, buying houses for their children. They are putting their trust in the borough of Brooklyn. They are putting their trust in the leadership to keep the communities as representative as they are. Not necessarily only with the same Senator. Yes I happen to really appreciate the work that Senator Kruger has done. I think he's a fantastic Senator. It's not just coming up here and arguing on behalf of one Senator. It's arguing on behalf of saying the needs of the community cannot possibly be addressed by splitting up and merging so many different communities that have such diverse needs. I feel that it will only hurt the delivery of the services that are being provided to that community. Districts that are supposed to represent natural community boundaries are suddenly just being ripped up. I urge the board, I urge Governor Pataki, I urge those actually who have a say to please look at it again. Two, if you can as Mr. Mostofsky had mentioned, come down. Look at the community. See really what would be accomplished other than possibly just redrawing the line possibly to somebody's benefit but looking at it and saying how are we going to provide the best services to the community, to the residents, to the people out there, to the entities that are there. Whether it's the schools, the synagogues, the churches. How do we best perform those services and allow them to best perform their services to their constituents. I thank you and I appreciate the opportunity to be able to speak today. SENATOR SKELOS: Warren Nadel. Mr. Nadel here? Arnold Cohen. Is Mr. Cohen here? Anton Gancz. Mr. Gancz here? Dana Borell. After Dana will be Roberta Sherman and then Alexander Singer. MS. BORELL: My name is Dana Borell. I am the President of the Manhattan Beach Community Group, the civic organization representing Manhattan Beach, Brooklyn. Parenthetically I am a member of Community Board 15 and the community advisory board of Coney Island Hospital. We are horrified and dismayed at the redistricting plan that the State legislature has proposed for carving up Brooklyn. We are grievously angered and disappointed that the legislature has concocted a plan to make a political point at the expense of Brooklyn's citizenry. In a word we have been disrespected. Our civil rights and voting rights and neighborhood rights have been ignored, nay, sneered at. That was the only conclusion that we could reach when we reviewed how the legislature completely sundered our neighborhoods. However, I am here specifically to protest the bizarre borders that transferred the immediate neighborhood of Manhattan Beach into a district that is miles away and unreachable by public transportation from our neighborhood. Since it seemed to us that the New York State legislature is completely indifferent to the political effects that this proposed redistricting will have on our Manhattan Beach community, we organized a letter writing campaign aimed directly asking Governor Pataki to intercede and right these wrongs. This is the letter that several hundred of us have sent. Dear Governor Pataki. The Manhattan Beach community is firmly and unalterably opposed to the proposed plan of the New York State Senate to redraw the lines of the 21st Senate District. Your help is needed to stop this plan in it's tracks. The proposed plan balkanizes the neighborhoods of southern Brooklyn, separating them from their historical attachments that are held together by the co-terminality of community boards, police precincts, and school and sanitation districts. The entire district is easily interconnected by public transportation. This is not true of the proposed new Senate District 19 which is broken into two parts, separated by Jamaica Bay and various inlets and marshes. How on earth could a person who cannot drive get to the senate office, which is sure to be where the bulk of the population in East New York or Starrett City? Of equal importance, our neighborhood will be stripped of meaningful elected representation because of the meandering and tortured lines that serve no purpose other than to further the political ambitions of a selected and unwanted few. The ties of Manhattan Beach have always been with its contiguous neighboring communities with which it shares many commonalities of interest. Suddenly we find that Manhattan Beach has been wrenched from its moorings to be attached to neighborhoods which share little in common interest, first, because there is a great geographical divide separating the two areas most of which is a marsh and connected only by the Belt Parkway. And second because the needs of the two areas are so divergent. This plan proposes that Manhattan Beach be connected politically to Starrett City, East New York and Brownsville. With all the good will in the world how is it possible that the two disparate areas that the Senate proposes to merge will be able to function as one common political unit? The needs of these communities are simply too far apart to allow for cohesive and fair representation. Given such a union, Manhattan Beach will surely suffer unfair and unnecessary neglect. This is blatantly a deprivation and dilution of our voting rights. Governor Pataki drastic redistricting is not necessary in Brooklyn. The Senate proposal is unworkable. We respectfully urge you to insist that it be withdrawn. Ladies and gentlemen I am honored to represent the neighborhood of Manhattan Beach. I am especially proud to hand to you our letters to Governor Pataki written by a very concerned and politically astute group of voters. Thank you. SENATOR SKELOS: Robert Sherman. MS. SHERMAN: Good afternoon members of the commission. My name is Roberts Sherman. I have been the President of the (inaudible) Civic Association for 13 years. I am not going to go into a I have been a chairman of this and co- chairman and you name it, I've done it. I currently am the leader and the state committee person for the 39th Assembly District. I have to tell you I have to congratulate you. I am different than everybody else. Because you have concocted and created a plan that has ripped a Senator and Senatorial District in a way that I could never even have imagined. I have to tell you I am not an expert on redistricting. But I know when something smells. You have created a cha, cha, cha of a district. You took Manhattan Beach and you put it over here, cha, cha, cha. You took Marine Park and you put it out here, cha, cha, cha. You took Mill Island and Mill Basin and Georgetown and you shoved it up north cha, cha, cha. It is really a disgraceful plan. This is a community, many, many communities that work together and fight together. I can tell you from first hand experience, the civic association presidents know each other. They know the PA Presidents. They know their elected officials, because their elected officials are involved in community problems in every community fight. You have just taken that and destroyed it. It has nothing to do with (inaudible) or religion. We are a very, very well integrated senatorial district in every which way. This has just taken all of this cooperation and ripped it apart as I said before and I don't like to repeat myself. I am not going to get into all of the, you heard it. The reasons why this redistricting is not a good situation. As involved in politics as I am I know the political reasons for it. I understand that. I think that it could have been done in a much, much better way. You are just going to take one Senatorial district and create havoc. I have to tell you that I have been reading a lot these last few days. I always read. I have been reading that New Yorkers, people from New York City are greatly admired through this country, through the world because of their resilience. We have gone through a lot in these last seven or eight months. God help us we should never know from this again. What we need now in our community and our community was greatly affected, as was every community in the city. SENATOR SKELOS: Can you start wrapping up? MS. SHERMAN: What's that? SENATOR SKELOS: We're right at that five minute that we all agreed that everybody would be testifying. Five minutes. MS. SHERMAN: Yes I'm finished. What we need is tranquility, stability and continuity. Ladies and gentlemen I ask that you go back to your drawing boards and do something about correcting this horrific situation. Thank you. SENATOR SKELOS: Alexander Singer. Then Joyce Arberman and Marcia Schiff. MR. SINGER: Good afternoon. My name is Alexander Singer. I am a past President of the Manhattan Beach Community Group. I am active on many boards but I am speaking on my individual capacity. I am also speaking on behalf of my father. He could not be here. He just came out of the hospital, Rabbi Dr. Joseph R. Singer. He is a rabbi and (inaudible) of the Manhattan Beach Jewish Center where he served for 47 years and was one of the leading rabbi's in this city. I am speaking here on my behalf and his behalf to register our indignation at this shameful and horrific manner of gerrymandering. In order to placate our politicians which would deny our community the right of good representation. By what I hear today it will also deny the 19th Senatorial District of their good right of representation. I know nothing about Senator Sampson. I know nothing about the 19th Senatorial District. But by the eloquence of the speakers that spoke here today from that district that man serves his community well. Only the people in that district will have the same homegenitive issues to decide who their senator should be. Just like in the 21st district which is compact where we have the same issues in the various communities. That is why we are able to have an effective senator. Mr. Seklos the issue is not the personality as much as the boundaries. I agree with you. If you have a good senator you can work with, that's great. We do have it. But the bottom line is boundaries. So when someone from Manhattan Beach sits down with someone from Midwood, sits down with someone from Mill Basin we speak the same language. We have the same problems. I do not have the same problems as the people in Brownsville and East New York. To lump us together that is wrong. I truly think -- let me ask you a question. I live in Manhattan Beach so to get to Senator Sampson's office I assume you are going to provide a ferry service from Manhattan Beach to Canarsie because Canarsie is here. I assume you are then going to provide bus service for the elderly people you can't walk to get to Senator Sampson's office. Do you know what I think? I think when these plans were drawn a few of the legislators got in a row boat and they went into Jamaica Bay and there must have been a lot of dead fish that stunk and then this plan was devised. This plan stinks. Plain simply English. We have a very good Senator, Senator Kruger. He knows the needs of our communities. He knows the needs of the Manhattan Beach community. He knows the needs of the senatorial community. Therefore he is effective. He is also very effective as far as providing services through his personal constituents. I do not think we in the 21st Senatorial District should be put in a situation to be thrown against the 19th Senatorial District where no one is going to come out ahead. Where everybody is going to be hurt. I do think Senator Skelos it's the boundaries that are controlling more than anything else. Again having a great Senator makes it all the much easier. Thank you very much. SENATOR SKELOS: Joyce Arbereman. Is Joyce here? Marcia Schiff. After Marcia is Flow Hersch and Sol Meiman. MS. SCHIFF: Thank you for this opportunity to be heard. My name is Marcia Shciff. I am past President of the Sisterhood of Temple Shalom and currently the head of the Social Action Community for the Sisterhood of Temple Shalom. To be quite honest I am no expert on redistricting and I am puzzled by it. The reason could be because when you look at it it's almost if you made Brooklyn into a puzzle, threw the pieces up in the air and then tried to reconstruct it without even looking at the big picture. It doesn't fit. It just doesn't go together. As any puzzle enthusiast knows you can't pick out a pocketknife and carve the pieces off to make them fit. It would be great if you could but the picture just wouldn't work out. That's what seems to be going on with the redistricting plan. Now I have been in Brooklyn all of my life. Born and breed and raised and living here. Started out in Sheepshead Bay, moved to Georgetown now in Bergen Beach. I have friends in Midwood and Madison. We share all kinds of joys. I shop all across. As part of the Jewish community it's important that we stay together and have our voices heard. The way it's cut up now Bergen Beach and Mill Island is being separated from the Jewish communities of Midwood, Madison and Sheepshead Bay. This dilutes our, I don't want to say power so much but our speaking authority when it comes to representation. Now I think it's important that our interests be heard because especially now with the holiday of Passover coming up it seems that the Jewish concerns are being passed once again out into the desert without a voice. We are looking for that to turn to the committee to hear our voice at this point. A lot of my sisterhood ladies and friends would like to be here today. Unfortunately it being a Friday makes it very difficult for them to attend today's hearing. Preparations for shava start Friday morning and proceed up until sunset. So a lot of them you really denied their opportunity to be heard by scheduling this hearing on a Friday. It does make it difficult if not impossible for them to be here. So I ask that you listen to what I am saying on their behalf and change this plan. Put the pieces of the puzzle back together and please see the full picture. As it exists now we would like it to stay. Thank you. SENATOR SKELOS: Flow Hersch. Is Flow here? Sol Neiman. MR. NEEDLE: My name is Sol Needle. I will be substituting for Sol Neiman who will take my slot if that's permissible under the rules. Regrettably I have to go back to work. SENATOR SKELOS: Are you -- MR. NEEDLE: My name is Sol Needle. I am speaker number 112. Sol Neiman -- SENATOR SKELOS: No we have to wait until, we have to stay by order. MR. NEEDLE: There is no way I can ask for a dispensation? I have clients coming in. SENATOR SKELOS: No. There are a lot of people here. We have made a determination at the task force that everyone will speak in their own order. MR. NEEDLE: Okay. Thank you. SENATOR SKELOS: I apologize for that. Maurice -- Pardon me. Well he's more than welcome to speak. MR. NEIMAN: Good afternoon members of the task force. My name is Sol Neiman. I happen to be the president of the Futurama Civic Association in the Flatlands area. As someone who loves our community and knows the issues and problems that affect our residents everyday I am here today to voice my outrage. I am shocked, angry and yes outraged over the plan to tear apart our neighborhoods by changing the lines of the 21st Senate District. The legislative leadership got it all wrong when they came up here for redistricting plans. They looked at numbers not neighborhoods. They acted as technicians without any inclining of the human element and common interests that make a community tick. It is a terrible plan that was concocted without heart and without sole. The definition is clearly violated under the new redistricting proposal. The 21st Senate District as it is now designed represents what districts by law are supposed to be, compact, contiguous and representing natural community boundaries. The plan does not accomplish government mandate to serve the people in a most effective way possible. My neighbors and I deserve better than what the Legislative Task Force on Reapportionment came up with. The new district lines simply make no sense. Redrawing the 21st Senate District and other district line will damage a system that is both inaccessible and ineffective that government is supposed to serve. The people of our communities. I see no logic in the fact that according to the new proposal residents of Manhattan Beach will now be linked as a district with people all the way over in East New York and Brownsville. I want to say most of the people that have been up here have said most of this thing. I wish not to waste too much. I would relinquish the rest of my few minutes left and I want to thank you for hearing me. SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you for being here. Maurice Kaloden K-A-L-O-D-E-N. MR. KALODEN: Good afternoon. My name is Maurice Kaloden. I am a resident of Sheepshead Bay right where it borders Manhattan Beach and Brighton Beach depending on which corner you are standing on. It depends that gives you the answers to what neighborhood I come from. One thing at least that we have in common is that we had all been part of there 21st Senatorial District. It looks like things might be changing. We hope that is not the case. Despite what I hope are just a few years of my lifetime I have been very active throughout the area as a member, executive member and past chairperson of Community Board 15. I have been on the community board for over a quarter of a century. I served as an officer of the Community Jewish Council of Kingsbay and affiliated with the 61st Precinct Community Council. Just to name a few of the community activities that I am involved with. Again we would all be part of the same district. (Inaudible) would be part of the same district for all of my activities. Because each of these communities comprise a singular greater community. However not under the new lines. Whereas I would be dealing as well as all of my friends, neighbors, family with one senate district. One state senator to represent our interests. Depending upon which hat I would where I would be involved in three different districts in order to try to present my interests. I don't think that any of those that I know feel that that is an advantage. I don't think that any of the speakers we heard today regardless of what district or area they come from think that that is an advantage. I don't think if there is any similar type of division going throughout the state that anyone else would think that is an advantage. It is not. The developed neighborhoods, communities that have things in common if only by their proximity, by their interests in common goals beyond universal goals. That is what I think we are looking to promote and should be promoting. That is not the answer by proposed lines that we have. Apparently I wasn't the only one that thought that way. If I may take a moment I would like to read just a short letter that is addressed to Governor Pataki, Senator Majority leader Bruno and Assembly speaker Silver. The enclosed sign tear offs demonstrate our strong opposition to the legislative task force redistricting plan that could radically alter the 21st Senate District and ask that this plan be reconsidered before any damage is done. We believe this plan was concocted with no possible benefit to the people who live within the 21st Senate District. A negative impact however would be both immediate and widespread. This proposed redistricting plan discriminates against all the residents of New York City by overpopulating the districts in New York City and vastly underpopulating the upstate districts. The redistricting plan as it is written would result in fragmented districts all comprising the seemingly random hodge podge of neighborhoods. The neighborhoods or more accurately parts of neighborhoods that would fall within the new 21st Senate District for example would be served by several community boards, several different police precincts and several different school boards. This would lead to obvious confusion among the very people the legislature is supposed to serve and will be the death mail for the effective delivery of services. Neighboring districts would be equally disjointed and could conceivably serve portions of the same ill fashion constituencies and populations. In the 1980's an examination of the dangers of fragmented communities lead to an ambitious move known as co-terminality which made police precinct lines contiguous with community board lines. This initiative succeeded in simplifying government and proved beneficial to everyone involved. As the old saying goes if it ain't broke don't fix it. We ask that this redistricting plan be withdrawn. I ask and I will leave a copy of this letter as part of my testimony. On behalf of those who are like minded they have a box with several thousand letters signed and addressed by constituents as well. Thank you. SENATOR SKELOS: Dr. Matt Kahn. Dr. Kahn here? Dana Borell. Roberta Sherman. Alexander Singer. Did I call those already? Margueritte Narcisse N-A- R-C-I-S-S-E. Darlene Foscale F-O-S-C-A-L-E. MS. FOSCALE: Good afternoon. My name is Darlene Foscale. I am the Director of the Jay Senior Citizen Center. I have been living in the Sheepshead Bay area for 37 years. Schooled there, worked there. Never left Ocean Avenue. Just kept going on until the schools ran out. I have been living in my district for all my life. I don't know anything more than that. I have dedicated my life to working for senior citizens. When I came to the Jay Senior Citizen Center and found that Senator Carl Kruger had the same ambition and the same goals towards senior citizens that I did we immediately merged in a partnership to take care of the aging community. When I found out about the redistricting and didn't know anything about any of the other politicians who may or may not be taking over in that particular districting, I became outraged. My relationship with the people in the community of District 21 is such that if I need something, they are there. I know who to call. I know who to go tot I know who can come to me in a hurry. My seniors have come to me, when they go to Senator Kruger's office which is two and a half blocks down from the center they will get their results. Many of them are in canes. Some of them go to his office in wheelchairs. Some of them go just by themselves just to talk. But they know where to go and they know where to get results. That is what we found in Senator Kruger. This redistricting plan is ridiculous. It makes absolutely no sense at least for us in the 21st District. It is divided. The voting strength will be weakened. Senior citizens are the largest voting pool in the state of New York. In Sheepshead Bay we have the largest constituents of senior citizens. That's a lot of votes. That's a lot of people voting an opinion and expressing a desire. Seniors depend on a number of entitlement programs that assist them in obtaining rent increase exemptions. Paying their home bills and so forth. Places like Senator Kruger's office that's where they know to go. If it's gone how are my seniors going to be going to Staten Island? Half of my seniors don't even know how to get to Staten Island. Half of my seniors don't even know how to get past their little district in Sheepshead Bay. It's an enclave. It should not be broken up in any way shape or form. Gerritsen Beach and Marine Park will be connected to people in Bay Ridge seven miles away. My people don't even know where any of that stuff is or how to draw the district lines. Districts should be made up neighborhoods that fall into the jurisdictions of several of different police precincts. With so many entities to contain with, the needs of one neighborhood will fall through cracks as the needs of every other neighborhood will not be meet. Someone will suffer here. Unfortunately the senior citizens of the 21st Senate District will be among the casualties. Legislative leadership made a terrible and costly mistake when they came up with this redistricting plan. It did numbers not neighborhoods. In my business it's people. We are here to serve the people. We are here not to divide the people. We are here to unite the people. Ladies and gentlemen of this panel we lost so much since September 11th. Think about the loses that will occur here. Let it not happen. Please do something to prevent it. I beg to you, to the Governor and for my seniors on behalf of us I am saying Senator District 21, please do not let this happen. We must stand united. Thank you for your time. SENATOR SKELOS: Izzy Adler. Is Izzy here? George MacGregor. After George will be I'm not sure whether it's Diane Oratowski and then Jacob Gold. MR. MacGREGOR: Good afternoon ladies and gentlemen. I am a resident of Marine Park. I have been a life long resident of that community. I am also a retired New York City Police Officer, Community Affairs Specialist from the 61st Precinct. We covered the areas that you are about to disassemble with this redistricting. I can tell you as someone that went to each and every of these committee meetings and you heard from most of the presidents of these meetings how this cohesiveness and how this community has gelled together. To distribute it and throw it around in the manner which this plans calls for is doing a disservice to the people that vote you into your offices. To change the districts would be deferment to the well being of the communities. I urge you to leave this the way it should be where all communities it took ten years for them to get together. Where they trust each other. Where they have a State Senate representative that they all can go to and have faith in. Mr. Kruger has done a wonderful job with all these communities. He is well respected and well liked. I am quite sure that all the state senators that we have, have the same feelings for their communities but ours is a little special in that the way that this community is set up with all the break up, its more cohesive. We would like you to keep it just the way it is. SENATOR SKELOS: Dinae Oratowski. MR. BROWN: Assemblyman Parment, Senator Skelos members of the task force. My name is actually Chris Brown. Dinae Oratowski our President took ill. I serve as a member and speak on behalf of the Park Place-Underhill Avenue Block Association. A part of Brooklyn you haven't been hearing much about today so far. We serve the residents of Park Place from Vanderbilt to Washington Avenues and residents of Underhill Avenue from Sterling to Prospect Place. This is in the neighborhood of Prospect Heights. Our Block Association was founded in 1953. Meeting monthly we are now the longest continuously serving block association in the entire neighborhood of Prospect Heights and one of the oldest in Brooklyn. We now have 200 members who are very concerned with as our slogan goes the Quality of Life in Our Neighborhood. I come before you today to voice our block associations objections to the new assembly district lines. We hope there will be other voices today expressing strong displeasure at the disturbing fact that Prospect Heights, one united community have been divided into two separate assembly districts. Bordered by major roadways like Flatbush Avenue, Atlantic Avenue and Eastern Parkway, Prospect Heights is a neighborhood that is served by the same community board, the same school board, the same police precinct, the same sanitation precinct and all the same mass transportation. It only makes sense for Prospect Heights to have one set of accountable elected officials. But even more upsetting to us in the block association is where the task force decided to divide our neighborhood. By choosing to have the line that divides the 52nd and 57th Assembly Districts go directly down Underhill Avenue, you have not only divided our community but have taken our Block Association and divided exactly in half. Under your new plan the eastern half of our Block Association remains in the 57th Assembly District, but the western half would now be served by the 52nd A.D., a district that stretches west and south all the way to Carroll Gardens. For us it is hard enough to get the attention of the elected officials we now have. For one block association with a history that we have to be served by two different members of the assembly means we might get less attention from each and that simply doesn't make any sense. We understand that part of the goal of redistricting is to ensure that new districts serve communities of interest. We would propose that our neighborhood, Prospect Heights is one such community of interest. We would further add that the Park Place-Underhill Avenue Block Association is another smaller but very important community of interest within that larger community. We therefore urge the legislative task force to withdraw those lines and make us, our community and our block association whole once again. I gather than no one else has spoken on these particular lines today I would be happy to take any questions otherwise I thank you for your time. A VOICE: Jacob Gold. Is Jacob Gold here? Hafizur Khan. H-A-F-I-S-U-R Khan. Not here? Goldie Arrow. Senator Carl Kruger. MS. LEVINE: Would somebody please see if he is out in the lobby. I am sure he would like to come testify. Barry Smith. Alicia Hamill. Ursula Hahn. Are you Ursula? Ursula would you mind letting Alicia go first? Thank you. MS. HAMILL: This is very bizarre. Everything has been said. Everything has been understood I think. It's good to have the opportunity to present our views. SENATOR SKELOS: Could you just repeat your name. MS. HAMILL: I'm sorry Alicia Hamill. I am a 55 year resident and number 88. I like that. I'll pin it to my chest. Carl Kruger has been our Senator for quite awhile. There have been a ton of accolades about it but one thing he has done is unite a community. That is probably one of the most diverse in the city, ethnically, racially, culturally, religiously. He works with all of us. No matter what we are. No matter how big or how small our organization is. What I think this redistricting is doing to us is if there is such a word as disempowering. You are taking away our ability to continue to grow as a community. To share with each other. To be able to point to eachother and say this is where you go for help. I am on several different boards and it's all voluntary. I had to take off work today to attend this meeting. I only can divide myself into so many pieces besides my work and what other family commitments I have. If I have to talk to two senators, I (inaudible) maybe now and I am a very small minority involved in some of these groups. I look around this room and these guys are 14, 15 different things and they go to them. You can't do that and have a life. You can't be part of your community. You can't represent your community. Not as a paid politician but as an individual. If you have to go to all, you can't do it. If half of your block is in one district or one Senatorial District you are making it unattainable for us. You have the problems upstate obviously that we have down here. What I guess upsets me is some of the things like the Chapter 14 and the New York State laws of 1978. You know what they are. They obviously are supposed to look nice and pretty the way it used to. In the box that we can communicate with each other. Get to our districts. We can't do that anymore. Even my senior citizens. You're making it virtually impossible for us to be active in government. Whatever, maybe I shouldn't say this but I am going to, whatever problems and we all have them in the business or political you guys have to work them out yourselves. Don't put your communities in the crossfire. It's just not fair. Sorry. Thank you. SENATOR SKELOS: Ursula Hahn. MS. HAHN: My name is Ursula Hahn. I present a statement from Mark Zimmerman, the President of the board of Directors of Concorde Village Owners. A seven building residential cooperative bordered by Adams, Tillery, Jay and (inaudible) Street near the Brooklyn Bridge. Our community has a population of approximately 2,500. Built after World War II as part of Brooklyn's large urban renewal civic center development, Concorde Village became home to Dutchess Court and government employees as well as academic staff members from the numerous educational institutions in the vicinity. The complex became a cooperative in 1980. The Concorde Village residents have developed stronger ties to Brooklyn Heights and downtown Brooklyn than to other adjacent areas because of the commercial, cultural, educational, recreational and transportation facilities and attractions in these two areas. A commonality of interest had been evident in many levels of civic involvement. In addition to their activities in Community Board 2 which covers Brooklyn Heights and downtown Brooklyn among other areas individual Concorde Village residents along with the cooperative's leadership have vigorously participated in the decade long efforts to transform the East River shoreline into the Brooklyn Bridge part and in the downtown Brooklyn traffic common study. These two projects have been strongly supported by Assemblywoman Joan Millman and State Senator Martin Connor as well as by our new city Councilman David Yatsky. Most recently our senior residents have benefited concretely from Assemblywoman Millman's support which enabled the Heights and Hill community Council to include Concorde Village in it's van routes and provide transportation to Brooklyn Heights and the Fulton Street Mall. Because of Concorde Village's proximity to the adjacent communities represented by Ms. Millman, Mr. Connor and Mr. Yatsky. Because of able representation it the past and intermit knowledge of our concerns and because of their unified vision for the concerns of their districts the residents of Concorde Village petitioned the legislature to keep Concorde Village in Ms. Millman's district and to restore Concorde Village to Senator Connor's district. This will ensure that future representation fully recognizes the commonality of interests that Concorde Village residents have with those from the adjacent areas of Brooklyn Heights and downtown Brooklyn. Thank you. SENATOR SKELOS: David Ryan. MR. RYAN: Ladies and gentlemen. Members of the committee. My name is David Ryan. I am representing the Kings County Conservative Party of which I am a district leader of the 46th Assembly District. A review of the proposed changes of the redistricting of the Bay Ridge Dyker Heights area I know quite an improvement in connecting a portion of Bay Ridge with Staten Island. The proposed 60th Assembly District which will run from the south shore of Staten Island to lower Bay Ridge is a good example of a contiguous district that shares historically linked communities that are filled with individuals with common interests and concerns. It should be noted that many former residents of Bay Ridge live in the south shore of Staten Island. These former residents have many family members that currently reside in Bay Ridge and Dyker Heights. What proplexes me though is that the Bay Ridge Dyker Heights area will actually go from being divided into four assembly districts into five. Namely the 46th, 48th, 49th, 51st and 60th. Why is that my community must be the anchor of five different assembly districts? Three of which, the only exception being the 49th and the 60th assembly district share few similarities with Bay Ridge and Dyker Heights. The end result again is creating an oddly shaped district that runs throughout Brooklyn. Attaching a small piece of Bay Ridge and Dyker Heights to areas that have historically been philosophically and politically quite different in character from Bay Ridge and Dyker Heights. The population of Bay Ridge and Dyker Heights is approximately 140,000 people. When taking into effect the need and logic of crossing county lines with Staten Island to complete the 60th Assembly District, Bay Ridge and Dyker Heights should have only one additional assembly district not four. Thank you very much. SENATOR SKELOS: Sharon Borno. MS. BORNO: Good afternoon panel. It is a pleasure to be before you today to speak about my community. I represent the community Glendale Court and Avenue H, which is Community Board 18. Under Dorothy Torano who is our district manager. I have the pleasure of working with Ms. Torano as our leader, Senator Carl Kruger, Senator John Sampson and Paula Whitney and Richard Capanacco who is our police officer. He is the captain of our precinct 63. We have developed of family in this community and indeed I cherish it. Members of my community they appreciate working with those that we can talk to on a daily basis no matter what our problems are, no matter what our concerns are. Over the last two years we just have had our senior citizen center just there. It's to cater to senior citizens. In working with Assemblywoman Weinstein she was able to get some additional funding for our senior. As I said before we developed family relationships and ties. As you know we have had much heartache over the past two summers. Things that went on with the police department and the community. Through it all we worked together hand in hand. Through our diversities, racial differences, ethnic differences. Whatever. We worked together as a family and we would like to continue that way. Recently my job just moved me out to Staten Island. Not only do I have a two and a half commute to go out there but I think also as I look back and I'm saying wow they're planning on redistricting us across water. There is no houses in the boundary there. There is just water that is separating the communities. I don't know if I am conveying my thoughts to you in the way that is really meant right now. All I want to say personally is that I like my community and I want it to stay as it is. Thank you. SENATOR SKELOS: Maryanne Oliva. Is Maryanne here? Hakim Jeffries. Is he here? Aviva Klein. Anne Dietrich. Mary Tobin. MS. TOBIN: I would just like to say that you have heard from the best and the brightest that Brooklyn has to offer this afternoon. All of you are elected officials. You know your own communities but I dare say there is no one in your community that would fight as passionately for their area or their block as the people here have fought for our communities. My background is very simple. I am almost a life long resident of Marine Park. I raised my children here. My husband has a business here. We have invested in Marine Park. I might say the same for Gerritsen Beach. I spent most of my life working in the private sector. The other half of my life besides raising children was dedicated to politics. I was a conservative party leader and then I realized that there were rascals here that had to be taken out. I changed my enrollment and became a democrat. I ran in the primary and I became a democratic leader representing the old 42nd which took in Marine Park and representing the 45th which take in most of the area that is going to be chopped up. Brooklyn is not a patchwork quilt. It's neighborhoods. There are people. There are hearts. I am speaking from the heart and reaching out to you to please reconsider the lines. We all understand what goes into politics. We all understand especially those that are in business that you need to satisfy different people at different locations at different times. I am saying to you there was no magic in making Brooklyn a top real estate area. There wasn't a blade of grass that we did not fight for. Some thirty years ago when the elected officials or the hierarchy in Albany wanted to give us co-op City at Floyd Bennett Field, a bunch of us, community people got on a bus and went to Washington to fight for that little bit of park land that we now have. Fighting is nothing new. I urge you please think of your own communities and think what you wouldn't want done to yours. We understand that lines have to be changed. I heard the word family before by one of the ladies here. You know what this is family. We are a family of community and elected officials. I knew Carl Kruger when he was a chairman. This is his family. We are going to fight for our family just like you would fight for yours and your community. Please reconsider, really think and give us a break. You know I heard that too, if it ain't broken don't fix it. Have a good day. SENATOR SKELOS: Pat Singer. Is Pat here? Sam Shepelfogel. Is here here? John Mooney. Vladimir Epshteyn. Inna Stavitsky. Malka Bragin B-R-A-G-I-N. Izia Katsap K-A-T-S-A-P. Ellaine Lerner. Inna Gekeeman G-E-K-E-E-M-A-N. Villiam Gil. Boris Ilyinsky I-L-Y-I-N-S-K-Y. Innesa Latipov L-A-T-I-P-O-V. Vitaliy Sherman. MR. SHERMAN: Good afternoon. My name is Vitaliy Sherman. I am an executive director of (inaudible) Public Relations Consulting. It is a local company in Sheepshead Bay. I am a resident of Manhattan Beach neighborhood. I am actually here to express my opinion and the opinion probably of most of my friends. Because I am here to strongly oppose proposed redistricting plan that was radically altered for the 21st and 22nd Senate District. And, ask to reconsider it before any damage is done. I believe this plan will have no possible benefit to people who live between the 21st and 22nd Senate District. This plan discriminates against all the residents of New York City by overpopulating the district in New York City and underpopulating the upstate districts. The neighborhoods or what's left of them after this plan will be executed. Whatever falls between the 21st and 22nd Senate District for example would be served by several different community school boards, community boards and police precincts. This plan would only create confusion among the very people the legislature is supposed to serve. Neighboring districts would be equally disjointed and could conceivably serve portions of the same communities. A lot of people here will make an example of co-terminality experience in 1980 so I am not going to talk about it anymore. But you all know what happened there. I am here pretty much to ask you not to do anything about it. Leave it the way it is. We like it this way. Thank you. SENATOR SKELOS: Stenographer how are you doing? You need a short break? We're just going to take a short break. Michael Foyner F-O-Y-N-E-R. He's number 109. Is Michael here? Number 110 Dolores Measer M-E-A-S-E-R. Is Dolores here? Ellyn Walansky W-A-L-A-N-S-K-Y. Is Ellyn here? Sol Needle. Thank you for your patience. MR. NEEDLE: I'm back. Good afternoon. My name is Sol Needle. I am the President of the Mill Island Civic Association. As someone who feels strongly about the Mill Island community and knows the issues and problems that affect my neighbors and I everyday, I am here today to voice my anger and my dismay over the plans to change the lines of the 21st Senate District which threatens the future of one of Brooklyn's greatest neighborhoods. The 21st Senate District now represents what districts by law are supposed to be, compact, contiguous and consisting of natural community boundaries. According to the new district lines however this has all been changed. Residents of my neighborhood in Mill Island have been ripped apart from our natural and logical neighbors in Marine Park and have been connected instead to a district that extends all the way to Tilden Avenue in East Flatbush. A district with it's own separate problems and it's challenges. With the 21st Senate District divided into so many different pieces, our voting strength will be diluted. Our special concerns will be addressed in a more complicated manner if they are addressed at all. This reapportionment plan throws together neighborhoods with nothing in common. Districts will be harder to govern because there will be a greater number of diverse interests involved. Instead of the current system, a system that happens to work affectively by the way, districts will be made up of neighborhoods that are served by several different police precincts, numerous community boards and school districts. That would be wrong. Mill Island for instance includes one of the highest performing elementary schools in the city of New York which happens to be P.S. 236. Continuing to maintain the high quality of this school is a major challenge. Doing so however is important so that we can keep Mill Island community desirable. How will an elected official juggle the needs of this and other high performing schools and the needs of many struggling and low performing schools at the other end of this district? P.S. 236 will suffer as a result and that is something that none of us wants to see. With so many school districts, community boards, police precincts to contend with, the needs of one neighborhood will easily fall through the cracks as the needs of another constituency are being met. When families set down roots in Mill Island they had faith that New York City and State will provide them the best in day to day care, services that will enable them to remain here and thrive. Breaking up neighborhoods will diminish the delivery these services and damage a system that is accessible and effective for the people that government is supposed to serve. I urge you to withdraw this plan. Thank you. SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you. Michael Gregorio. Michael Gregorio. MR. GREGORIO: My name is Michael Gregorio. Vice President of the Elmwood Residence Co-Op Association. As someone who has been raised and breed in Brooklyn and loves our community and knows the issues and problems that affect our residents everyday, I am here to voice my outrage. I am shocked and angry over the plan to tear apart our neighborhoods by changing the lines of the 21st Senate District. This radical change will have an immediate an extremely negative impact on our communities and on our lives. The 21st Senate District as it is now designed represents what districts by law are supposed to be representing natural community boundaries. The definition is clearly violated under the new redistricting proposal. The plan does not accomplish governments mandate to serve the people in the most effective way possible. The new district makes no sense at all. It's ridiculous that according to the new proposal residents of Manhattan Beach will now be linked as a district with people all the way over in East New York and Bronwsville. People living on Strickland Avenue in Mill Basin will now be connected to the residents on Tilden Avenue and East Flatbush. If you saw the maps you would realize what a distance that is. By the same token I fail to see the advantage of having Brighton Beach residents share a Senate District with the people all the way across the Verrazano Beach on the north shore of State Island. We see no sense in having people living in Sheepshead Bay and Kings Bay and Kings Highway and the Madison area share a Senate District with those who live in the outer reaches of Borough Park. A completely separate neighborhood. Where is the sense in having people in Gerritsen Beach and Marine Park connected to the people in Bay Ridge, several miles away? Our special needs will be addressed in a fair different and more convoluted manner. Instead of speaking with one voice our community will be split among many weaker voices in these proposed district lines if they are allowed to remain. The purpose of redistricting must not be to throw neighborhoods with little or nothing in common together. Yet that is exactly what this plan would do if it is not withdrawn. Under the new district lines districts would be made up of neighborhoods that fall under the jurisdiction of several different police precincts, several different community boards and several different school districts. In the 1980's a bold and innovative move called co-terminality was advocated. There are many people here today who remember those days. Before co-terminality the city's community boards and police precincts had different neighborhood boundaries. This fragmented our communities and made it harder for both the community boards and the police to do their jobs properly. Making community board lines and police precinct lines coterminous or the same help to simplify the workings of government. It is proven beneficial to everyone involved most importantly to the families and seniors and everyone who chooses to live and work in this great city. As a retired New York City Police Detective who proudly served this city for 29 years, 15 of them in community affairs work I can tell you that co- terminality worked and keeping communities together works. With a huge jumble of entities to contend with school districts, community boards, police precincts, the needs of one neighborhood will easily fall through the cracks as the needs of another very different constituency are being met. It's impossible to juggle so many balls in the air without at least one ball falling down. Someone will surely suffer. Which neighborhood are we planning to drop today? Mill Basin. Next week it's Midwood. After that should we drop Sheepshead Bay? Gerritsen Beach. The legislative leadership got it wrong when they came up with their redistricting plan. They looked at numbers not neighborhoods. We are a borough of neighborhoods. They acted as technicians without any inclining of the human element and common interests that make a community tick. The neighborhoods in the 21st Senate District are among the best in the city. Please keep them together. Thank you very much. SENATOR SKELOS: Dan Holt H-O-L-T. Artie Fischbein. Is Aartie here? Susan Jacobs. Delroy Thompson. Frank McDermott. Judy Shapiro. Hilda M-I-R-W-I-S. Rabbi Grenblatt. Ilya Rubenstein. Charles Harrary H-A-R-R-A-R-Y. Rae Khan. MS. KHAN: Good afternoon members of the panel. It is a pleasure to be able to speak. My name is Rae Khan and I live in Sheepshead Bay. I have lived in Sheepshead Bay for approximately 28 years. I am and I have the honor of being the President of the Kawanis Sheepshead Bay Club. I am also an executive board member of Community Board 15 for 25 years. I am here today to express my outrage of several aspects of the legislative redistricting plan proposed by the task force on reapportionment. This plan tears apart the 21st Senate District and has no apparent benefit for anyone it is supposed to serve. It is gerrymandering in the worst way. The existing 21st Senate District represents what districts by law are supposed to be, compact, contiguous and representing natural community boundaries. With the new plan this definition was thrown out the window. My neighbors and I deserve better. According to the proposal people living north of Avenue I in neighborhoods like Sheepshead Bay, Kings Bay, Kings Highway and the Madison area will share a senate district with Borough Park. People in Mill Basin will be linked to East Flatbush. People in Gerritsen Beach and Marine Park will be connected to Bay Ridge. Brighton Beach will share a senate district with the north shore of Staten Island. Perhaps most amazingly Manhattan Beach will be linked with East New York and Brownsville. Neighborhoods that aren't even contiguous to Manhattan Beach on a map. When you divide a district in this manner the results are negative and destructive. A community's voting strength is diluted. Special needs are addressed in a more difficult manner and the programs that help the poor and the elderly have a harder time reaching the people that they are supposed to help. This reapportionment plan creates districts out of hodge podge of neighborhoods with nothing in common. Districts become harder to govern of the greater number of interests involved. Under the proposal districts are made up of neighborhoods served by several different police precincts, community boards and school districts. There are inherent difficulties in this. Included in the 21st Senate District for example are many of the best schools in Brooklyn, which I work in one of them. Keeping these schools high quality takes a lot of time and effort. It is hard to imagine trying to deal with the needs of three or four school districts at the same time. Each with its own set of issues and problems. So what will happen? The best schools will suffer. Almost 20 years ago a move to simplify government was advocated. That move was called co-terminality. Before co-terminality the city's community boards and police precincts had different neighborhood boundaries. This made it harder for the community boards and police to do their jobs. Making community board lines and police precinct lines, co-terminus or the same has helped everyone. Most importantly the people who choose to live and work in this great city. Redrawing the 21st Senate District and other districts will only complicate government. With so many school districts, community boards, police precincts to contend with, the needs of one neighborhood will be shunted aside as the needs of another neighborhood are being met. And entire communities will suffer. I am proud that the neighborhoods in the 21st District are among the best in the city. With the high property values and thriving shopping, commercial areas on Emmons Avenue, Kings Highway, Nostrand Avenue, Avenue U among many others. These are important reasons why the neighborhoods of the 21st District must remain as one. Please help us by keeping the 21st Senate District together. This plan must be withdrawn. Thank you. SENATOR SKELOS: Wanda Ihrig I-H-R-I-G. MS. IHRIG: Good afternoon everyone. I know it must be difficult hearing so many impassioned speakers all in one day. I thank you in advance for your patience and commitment to truly listening to us and hearing our views on this rather difficult matter. My name is Wanda Ihrig. I am the co-founder of Informed Voice Civic Association. Our civic covers all of Canarsie as does the 69th Precinct and the 19th Senatorial District. Canarsie is covered by Senator Sampson along with Brownsville and East Flatbush. Together we have a united political voice. It is not a mischaracterization of the facts when I tell you that many of the residents are rather dismayed and upset to learn the impact of the line redistricting. Our issues and concerns are not the same as those in Manhattan Beach, Brighton Beach or Gravesend. Canarsie has a strong multi cultural population. A predominant number of our residents are from Haiti, Jamaica, Guinea and the Philippines. We have a senator currently who understands the needs of all the people he represents and is accountable to all in that community because he serves all in that community. Canarsie is a neighborhood that has common interests and needs despite its diverse population. To ensure that those needs are met the community must speak with one strong and united voice. Dividing a neighborhood dilutes our voting strength. It gives us a less of a cohesive voice when we fight for the needs of the community in which we all live. Historically when any neighborhood is divided up there is serious doubt as to the commitment for the entire neighborhood on the part of those who only represent a piece of that community. It is natural to look after the larger part of the district first. Sadly in a divided community part of a neighborhood may become thought of dispensable and irrelevant. As thoughtless and hurtful as this behavior is to the constituents of the given area, equally catastrophic is the lack of services for the neighborhood as a whole. We need an elected official who will fight for our entire neighborhood because he represents our entire neighborhood. Ladies and gentlemen the proposed lines of the 19th and the 21st Senatorial Districts do not reflect a logical and just conclusion to the needs of the entire Canarsie community or to the other neighborhoods they are in. The people in these neighborhoods deserve better. I beg each of you please do not display being indifference to our plea for help. Rather please restore the previous lines of the 19th and 21st Senatorial Districts. Thank you for your time. SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you. MaryAnn Oliva. Bill Houston. MS. TURANO: (inaudible). The girls at the front desk, they didn't hand you the sheet. SENATOR SKELOS: Do you want to submit the testimony? MS. TURANO: No I would like to give testimony for myself. SENATOR SKELOS: Are you scheduled on the list? MS. TURANO: No they used the wrong name and my name did not appear for the community board. They put Bill Houston's name and Bill Houston is definitely not here. SENATOR SKELOS: No objection from the audience? MS. TURANO: Thank you. My name is Dorothy Turano. I am the District Manager of Community Board 18. It encompasses the districts that are included primarily in this redistricting. After the events of 9/11 our legislative leaders pledged their support to work with legislative members on both sides of the aisles. They were going to do that for the betterment of our city and our state. What happened to that promise? What happened to that promise when you used computers to draw lines that gerrymandered through Community Board 18 neighborhoods for the sole purpose of creating an additional senate seat for City Council member Marty Golden who because of term limits needs a job. Don't use our neighborhoods as pawns in your political chess game. The intent of reapportionment isn't to create jobs for out of work, term limited city politicians. Let me remind you that just a few months ago our communities helped elect our Mayor Mike Bloomberg. His money alone wasn't enough to get him elected and your plan alone isn't enough to gain a fabricated seat in Brooklyn. This isn't about politics. This is about community and leadership. Don't tear us apart. We will not allow you to be myopic, biased, prejudiced, narrow or bling to the power of our Brooklyn State Senators Carl Kruger and John Sampson and the strong communities they have affectedly represented for years. Communities you have identified by voter registration solely. Starrett City, Canarsie, Mill Island, Mill Basin, Georgetown, Flatlands, Amisford Flatlands, Futurama, Marine Park, Gerritsen Beach, Manhattan Beach and Sheepshead Bay. These communities of community board 18 have been well defined in all of the city materials that have been provided. They have also been identified as important viable areas that provide our city with a solid tax base. These communities and neighborhoods represented here today must be maintained in order to attract and keep families, businesses and industry in New York. Throughout our communities there exists a network of volunteer civic, parent, religious and service organizations. Working in a harmonious atmosphere of partnership to advance and enhance the quality of life for all of our residents. It is that spirit of commitment and activity that makes communities of Community Board 18 perhaps some of the finest places in which to raise your families. Senator Kruger and Senator Sampson reside on our Community Board 18. Our needs and concerns are their needs and concerns. They participate in our meetings. They control our streets. They fight for us whenever our communities need help. They shop in our local stores. They use the same city services. They pray in our religious institutions. They even eat in the same restaurants. We look toward their continued support as key ingredients in addressing the needs of our communities. That partnership has been developed and cannot be destroyed by your proposed lines. Our neighborhoods and elected official are cohesive. We work as a team. If someone sneezes in Gerritsen Beach someone in Canarsie says God Bless you. We want to keep it that way. Only through the persistent efforts of our present local elected officials in a partnership with community including the civic and block associations, community school districts, parent teachers associations, religious groups, merchant organizations and community based organizations can we continue to keep our genda -- SENATOR SKELOS: We are close to that five minute point. MS. TURANO: Okay I'm almost finished. Moving forward. Only through a comprehensive program of improvement and long range planning with our local officials have we been able to fulfill lour goals. The redistricting plan as it is written would result in fragmented districts. The neighborhoods, or more accurately parts of neighborhoods would be served by several different senators. Our community board would have five senators representing them at the tale end of the dog. We would have several community boards represented by these senators. We would have several police precincts within their districts and several community board areas. This division of neighborhoods is not what reapportionment is all about. The addition of a senate seat dilutes the voting strength of the minority communities in downstate counties as opposed to upstate. Thereby making the downstate vote diluted and weakened. The unique ties that link us as a community would be completely unraveled. We will be competing against one another. The entitlement programs that assist so many senior citizens and low income residents will have a harder time reaching the people they are designated to help. Instead of speaking with one voice united with a common purpose our community would be split among many weaker voices if the proposed district lines are somehow allowed to remain. We can only hope that when the legislative leadership has the opportunity to review the proposal and after hearing the outcry of the communities that government is supposed to serve, they will agree that the preliminary reapportionment plan does not protect our communities. SENATOR SKELOS: I am going to have to ask you to conclude. MS. TURANO: We urge you to use your power, rethink you lines and make it whole again. Give Senator Sampson and Senator Kruger back to our community board communities. Thank you SENATOR SKELOS: Nilda Rodriguez. Mark Powell. Denise Wright. Ben-Gurion Matsas. Michael Crane. After Michael will be Gloria Woods and Louis Spina. MR. CRANE: Good afternoon. Senator Skelos, Assemblyman Parment and members of the task force. My name as you just heard is Michael Crane. I appear before you today representing an older neighborhood than one you have heard about so far. The DUMBO Neighborhood Association otherwise known as DNA. I would like to thank you for this opportunity to speak before you regarding the proposed redistricting of Assembly District 52. DUMBO is an acronym for Down Under the Manhattan Bridge Overpass. And was coined by the artists who first moved into our warehouse and loft district from lower Manhattan back in the 1970's. Our boundaries are the East River to the north, the Brooklyn Queens Expressway to the south, the Fulton Ferry Historic District to our west and the Vinegar Hill Historic District to our east. For those of you on the task force who are not familiar with DUMBO or our surrounding neighborhoods I have attached some maps of our area as appendix A to my statement which the staff has. DNA would like to express our concerns about the proposed redistricting of the 52nd. We appreciate the population changes that have lead to the necessary and mandated process of reapportionment and redistricting. But as our combined historic waterfront neighborhood has been sawed in half for no perceptible reason, we are afraid that our baby's are being thrown out with the bath water. The currently proposed redistricting cuts a jagged line through DUMBO and completely eliminates Vinegar Hill from Assembly District 52. This portion which according to the 2000 census comprises only 358 people over 22 blocks is now being proposed to be allocated into the 50th A.D. When Assemblyman Joe Lentil has very ably represented District 50 since 1972, it seems extremely odd to tear away less than 400 people from the neighborhoods they have been part of for decades and to tack them onto Mr. Lentils' district. See Appendix B to my statement to see the current and proposed borders. DUMBO, Fulton Ferry and Vinegar Hill form a continuous district along the waterfront with historic ties and common issues, interests and goals. Fulton Ferry was designated an historic district by the New York City Landmark Commission back in 1977. The Vinegar Hill district to our east was so designated by the landmarks commission in 1997. DUMBO itself was listed on the national register of historic places in 2000. DNA is working towards getting DUMBO designated as a New York City Historic District as well. The point I am making here is simply that these three historic waterfront neighborhoods have a long shared geography and common history of ties issues and problems. I am more than half way done. While we are smaller and less well known than our more famous neighbors up the hill in Brownstone Brooklyn where we are today, we regard the breaking up of our political representation in the state government, every bit as negatively as our friends here in Brooklyn Heights or in Cobble Hill would. All three of our neighborhoods share not only a strong link to the past through our 19th Century Architecture but common issues relating to our location along the Brooklyn waterfront. All three communities have been working together for years with our State, City and federal legislative officials on issues of common and joint interest. We are asking the task force not to split up our representation and to keep the boundary of the 52nd unchanged in our area. As I have mentioned the population that is proposed to be removed from 52nd is tiny therefore the carving up of DUMBO and the exclusion of Vinegar Hill serves no visible purpose. 348 people equals on 0.287% of the total proposed population of 121,210 people. The proposed 52nd deviates right now from the target population by only 4.19%. If you left the 348 people in the district as we are asking the margin deviation is still less than 5% at 4.47%. I have attached as Appendix C to my testimony some analysis that shows these figures and where I got the numbers from. Finally I would like to point out that the proposed new boundaries of our excellent State Senator Connor's district currently Senate District 25 now redrawn as District 27 already take my points into account. They keep Fulton Landing, DUMBO, and Vinegar Hill together. We are asking that the task force to follow the same logic for the assembly district and to keep all of DUMBO and Vinegar Hill in the same 52nd District as it has been. Our Assemblywoman Joan Millman has superbly represented us over the past five years and we would like to have all of our area continue to benefit from her focus on our issues and her hard work on our behalf. I hope I have made our point clear today and we appreciate the chance to be heard. Thank you very much. SENATOR SKELOS: Gloria Woods. Is Gloria here? Louis Spina. MR. SPINA: Louis Spina, the President of Kings Bay Youth Organization. It has been around since 1956. I am involved in approximately 1,200 families. We have 1,700 young boys and girls playing in our sports. It's all the sports programs. The disturbing news of what we are hearing (inaudible) about the boundary lines and what's going to happen. I am meeting with the families at the breakfasts and at the games that we have on the fields. Everyone is disturbed on what is going on about the splitting up of the boundaries and the district. Just to speak a little of a selfish. I am in the 21st District and Senator Carl Kruger has always been involved with us. He has come down. He gets involved into detail. Where will this detail be if we get split up and were to get spread apart? On behalf of my people as we see it not only, we have quite a few people in the 19th District, the Senator's District. They also play in our area also. They come to Kings Bay to play. It's all disturbing news to them. They don't like what's going on. They are angry about it. They are seeing what can we do to prevent it. They are all pleading to not to have this happen. Leave it alone. Let it stay the way it is. SENATOR SKELOS: Eileen O'Brien. Then Phillip Miller, Alan Maisel and Phoebe Lane. MS. O'BRIEN: Good afternoon Senator Skelos, members of the committee, ladies and gentlemen. My name is Eileen O'Brien. While many of my family and friends in fact live in your district Senator I have chosen to stay, living and working in Brooklyn and remain active in my local community. I am the Vice President of My local community school board. I have previously served as President as Treasurer. I am the founding President of my neighborhood civic association and as a community leader very actively involved in the elementary and the intermediate schools in my community. I am here to voice my very grave concern about the plan to radically change the lines of the 21st Senate District and frankly tear our communities apart. The purpose of redistricting and reapportionment is not to lose sight of the concept of the general good to favor the interests of one. It seems that that is a very, very strong possibility. I am not naïve, you are not naive. There certainly is a need to create a new Senate District. There is a need to draw lines and we can be here and rant and rave and shake our fists at the sky. The lines will be drawn. I beg of you to take into account the consequences of those lines when the end of the day comes. To create a district that will give another person a decided advantage at the expense of communities that people have worked and toiled and labored through, to struggle to maintain is really truly an outrage. People are able to succeed because they have common agendas. They have common interests. They are able to work together as one. We have been most fortunate in District 22 School Board and District 21 as well to have many schools which succeed. As the neighborhood school goes frankly so goes the community. That may not be the same agenda in Long Island but it is most assuredly an issue in New York City. Everyday you will find a new article promoting the plight of children's education and the style of education they receive. The community is a part of that school district. If you are going to draw lines which create completely opposing interests agendas, they are going to be diluted to such a degree that they are not going to succeed. You are going to be linking communities where there are very, very different needs. Currently our school district has approximately I would say about 67% of the students are not white students. There are 67 language groups spoken in our district. We try very hard to succeed with that. To link us with communities across the borough where it will be impossible to even have common interests will mean that we are not going to be able to have all of our legislators work together to get the same things in our schools that are in other schools. I ask you to please consider that. Please not generate a plan that will ultimately tear us apart at the expense of one man. Thank you for your time. SENATOR SKELOS: Phillip Miller. Alan Maisel. MR. PALMER: Good evening gentlemen and ladies. SENATOR SKELOS: Are you Philip Miller? MR. PALMER: I am not Phillip Miller. I am Sam Palmer. I am filling in for Phillip Miller. My name is Samuel E. Palmer. I am a member of Planning Board 18. I am also President of Flatlands -- SENATOR SKELOS: You are testifying for Mr. Miller? MR. PALMER: In place of Mr. Miller. Yes. I am here this evening and I am very grateful for the opportunity to put in my few words. The people who are deciding the boundaries. I live in the Flatlands area. I am a little concerned about what I am hearing. In fact the 21st Senatatoral District represented by the Honorable Carl Kruger bears the intention of changing the boundaries. (Inaudible) concerned because in that community I bought my home 19 years ago in the area. I did that because of the organized structure that existed there. I am enjoying it. I am working with the community. If you should go there you will see people who love their community. People who try to be their community and to keep their community in tact. It is your responsibility to create boundaries that a community is benefiting from. So as someone who loves the community and knows the issue and knows what goes on here, I know that the new boundaries will affect the residents. I am here today to voice my outrage. I am angry because these boundaries are being changed. The leadership got all the numbers wrong. Even if they got the numbers wrong they came up with the wrong redistricting. You look at numbers not neighborhoods. What I am asking is that we look at the neighborhood. The neighborhood is in tact. Look at the human element. The common interests that make a community tick. It is a terrible plan that was concocted without heart and without sole. This plan does not accomplish much. It does not accomplish government's mandate to serve the people in the most effective way possible. I see no logic in the fact that according to the new proposal residents of Manhattan Beach will now be linked as a district with people all the way over in East New York and Brownsville. People living on Strickland Avenue in Mill Basin will now be connected to the residents on Tilden Avenue and East Flatbush. Brighton Beach residents share a Senate District with the people all the way across the Verrazano Beach on the north shore of Staten Island. The purpose of redistricting must not be to throw neighborhoods with little or nothing in common together. Yet that is exactly what will happen this plan would do if it is not withdrawn. Districts will be harder to govern because there will be greater numbers of interests involved. Under the new district lines, districts will be made up of neighborhoods that fall under the jurisdiction of several different police precincts, several different community board, several different school districts. Right now in the 21st Senate District we have some of the highest performing elementary and intermediate schools in Brooklyn. The quality of our schools are very high. We face budgetary pressure and we face other problems. Unfortunately however it is not hard to imagine the excellent schools suffering as a result. That is something that none of us want to see. History demonstrates why the current district lines should remain the way they are. In the 1980's a bold and innovative move called co-terminality was advocated. There are many people here today who remember those days. Before co-terminality the city's community boards and police precincts had different neighborhood boundaries. This fragmented our communities and made it harder for both the community boards and the police to do their jobs properly. SENATOR SKELOS: Sir we are trying to keep everybody at five minutes so everybody can be heard so you are at that point. MR. PALMER: Making community board lines and police precinct lines coterminous or the same help to simplify the workings of government. It is proven beneficial to everyone involved most importantly to the families and seniors and everyone who chooses to live and work in this great city. These are compelling reasons sir why the neighborhoods of the 21st District must remain united and strong. The residents of our neighborhoods trust New York City and the State will provide them the best in day to day services that will enable them to remain here and thrive. Thank you. SENATOR SKELOS: Alan Maisel. Phoebe Layne. Paula Whitney. Is Paula here? MS. WHITNEY: As others have said before me I thank all of you for taking the time to listen to our requests. Good afternoon my name is Paula Whitney. I am President of the Mill Basin Civic Association. I am also a member of the Community Board 18 and a member of the Board of Trustees of the Flatlands Volunteer Ambulance Corp. This is my 13th year as President of the Mill Basin Civic Association. I have served in various capacities in my 25 years as part of the board of directors of the Mill Basin Civic Association. I was born in Mill Basin, my parents were born in Mill Basin. When my mother was born there weren't many houses there it was simply a basin with a mill in the middle of it. I continue to work for the community because I love Mill Basin. There are over 4,000 families living in Mill Basin I am representing here today. As someone who feels strongly about the Mill Basin community and knows the issues and problems that affect my neighbors and me everyday I am here to voice my anger over the plan to change the lines of the 21st Senate District and threaten the future of one of Brooklyn's greatest neighborhoods. The proposed lines will divide Mill Basin into two senate districts. I have volunteered my time for 27 years to keep Mill Basin together. These lines will destroy my community by tearing it apart and by separating us from our surrounding communities with which we have worked hard for many years on joined issues. The 21st Senate District now represents what districts by law are supposed to be, compact, contiguous and representing natural community boundaries. According to the new district lines however this all has changed. Residents of my neighborhood in Mill Basin have been ripped apart by a natural and local logical neighbors in Marine Park and have been connected instead to a district that extends all the way to Tilden Avenue in East Flatbush. A district with its own separate problems and it's own challenges. With the 21st Senate District divided into many different pieces our voting strength will be diluted. Our special concerns will address in a more complicated manner if at all. This reapportionment plan throws together neighborhoods with nothing in common. Districts will be harder to govern because there will be a greater number of interests involved. Inside the current system, a system that happens to work effectively districts will be made up of neighborhoods that are served by several different police precincts, community boards and school districts. I am also a school teacher in one of my neighborhood schools. Mill Basin for instance includes of the highest performing elementary schools in New York City, P.S. 236. Where my children attended. Maintaining the highest quality of this school is a major challenge. Doing so however is important so that we can keep Mill Basin community desirable. How will an elected official juggle the needs of this and other high performing schools and the needs of many struggling and low performing schools at the other end of this district? P.S. 236 will suffer as a result and that is something that none of us wants to see. With so many school districts, community boards, police precincts to contend with, the needs of one community will fall through the cracks as the needs of another constituency are being met. When families set down roots in Mill Basin they had faith that New York City and New York State will provide them the best in day to day services that will enable them to remain here and thrive. Breaking up neighborhoods will diminish the delivery these services and damage a system that is accessible and effective for the people that government is supposed to serve. I would also like to say something for the Gerritsen Beach community in Brooklyn where my uncle currently lives. Gerritsen Beach like Mill Basin is a very old community made up of wonderful small one family homes. Gerritsen Beach like Mill Basin will be torn asunder and separated from their neighbors with whom they have worked for many years. The Mill Basin community, my community will no longer continue to be a wonderful place to live if that proposed lines go into effect. On behalf of over 4,000 families in Mill Basin and the community of Gerritsen Beach I beg you to reconsider and withdraw this plan. SENATOR SKELOS: Allan Whitney. Jay Hais H-A-I-S. MR. WHITNEY: As a member of Community Board 18 and chairman of the social services committee I had the privilege. SENATOR SKELOS: You are Allan Whitney? MR. WHITNEY: Yes I am. I've had the privilege of sitting at some public hearings so I can empathize with you. The previous speaker, President of the Mill Basin Civic Association was so eloquent I have decided to shorten my testimony. SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you. MR. WHITNEY: Your welcome. Good afternoon. My name is Allan Whitney, Jr. I am the third vice president of the Mill Basin Civic Association and a member of Community Board 18. As I mentioned I am chairer of the Social Services Committee and I am on Planning and Zoning. And it's, I lost track, 20 some odd years. I have to go and ask Marty what it is. My message is simple and clear. If something isn't broke you don't fix it. The 21st Senatorial District represents what by law are supposed to be compact, contiguous, incorporate natural boundaries within the community board. Our communities have been torn asunder by the first preliminary redistricting plan. Redistricting plan as it is written will result in fragmented districts all comprising a seemingly random hodge podge of neighborhoods. The neighborhoods or more accurately parts of the neighborhood that will be served by different community boards, several different police departments and several different community boards. In the 1980s an examination of the dangers of fragmented communities led to an ambitious move known as co-terminality which made police precinct lines contiguous with community board lines. This initiative succeeded in simplifying government and proved to be beneficial to everyone involved. This misguided attempt to redraw district lines will only complicate once again and seriously damage a system that is both accessible and effective for the people of our community. I repeat if something isn't broke, you don't fix it. This plan must be withdrawn. Thank you very much. SENATOR SKELOS: Jay Hais H-A-I-S. Is Jay here? Joe Enright. Joe is in the back. Come on up. After that is Leonard Nadel and then Cheryl Hall. MR. ENRIGHT: My name is Joe Enright. I am first vice president of Sheepshead Bay Plum Beach Civic Association which serves Plum Beach for 40 years now. First I want to make clear that I am not here as a supporter of Senator Kruger. Do you want to gerrymander him around feel free but don't do it at the expense of our communities. I would like to read a letter in to the record that we being sent to Governor Pataki. We being the Sheepshead Bay Plum Beach Civic Association are totally opposed to the redistricting plan as it is been proposed. I don't think you have noticed how it will tear our community and our neighboring communities to pieces. We are to become the sacrificial lambs. We are kind of unique little neighborhoods, Sheepshead Bay, Plum Beach, Gerritsen Beach, Marine Park, Manhattan Beach. With our shore lines special zoning regulations and recreational areas. Our representatives that have worked for this on many projects and helped us to solve many problems still have difficulty understanding our area at times. Yet these are the representatives that we elected to speak for us because they have taken the time to get to know us and they have stood with us. We have worked hard and long to establish and maintain an open communication with our neighboring communities. Our school board, our police precinct, our firehouses, our houses of worship, our political groups and our elected officials so that we can all work together and make a difference. You are planning to destroy all our hard work and our accomplishments without a thought for us. We are the people. Our voice will not be heard with a gag you are planning to put on us with your redistricting plan. Sincerely yours, signed Kathy Flynn corresponding secretary. As I understand the law districts are supposed to be designed compactly and contiguously and represent natural community boundaries. As it applies to Sheepshead Bay, Plum Beach at least the proposed 19th Senate District violates all three of these guidelines. Under this plan we are not even contiguous with the rest of the district except by water and through marshland. I can get to no other segment of the proposed district by land without passing through some other senatorial district. That in itself is outrageous. It would be sufficient to demand revision of these district lines. How is the proposed district compact? Even counting the water and marshlands you have us sitting out like the tip of a tail on a cat and the body of it far north and east of us. We would be isolated and forgotten. Despite or perhaps because of the unique nature of our waterfront community our voice would go unheard against the cacophony and numbers that are immediately surrounding whoever our purported representative would be. No community so isolated could expect anything like proper representation. We couldn't even expect a modicum of understanding or our needs and problems. The parking needs of a tourist center, the deterioration of the city owned docks available to our fishing fleet, our welcome acceptance of the gambling boat, the needs of our growing aging population including numerous assisted living facilities. Our burgeoning foreign bond population. Even some aspects of our care theft and prostitution problems exaceratted by our proximity to the belt would be foreign to the vast majority of the citizens of the proposed district. I would have to assume that each time I would call my state senator's office I would have to reestablish my bonafides. Even then my problems would seem strange to them. For over a quarter of a century the benefits of co-terminality of administered amenities has been demonstrated time and again. At the beginning I seem to recall up in Monroe County where a confusion of overlap and school water foreign governing force have gotten completely out of hand. This kind of placing as many administrative units as possible within the same boundaries simplified everyone's life enormously and made governing far more possible. The concept was introduced in the New York City system in the 80's. SENATOR SKELOS: Sir we are just at that five minute point. We have a number of people -- MR. EHRIGHT: With the rest of this we urge you to reconsider the district lines. The future of the communities at stake. SENATOR SKELOS: Leanord Nadel. Cheryl Hall, Joseph Dorinson. MR. DORINSON: Hi Lou. Ladies and gentlemen my name is Joseph Dorinson. I wear three hats one of which commemorates the Brooklyn Dodgers about which I will speak. SENATOR SKELOS: I went to the last Giant Dodger game at the Pologrounds. MR. DORINSON: I congratulate you. Did you take a piece of memorabilia? SENATOR SKELOS: My uncle born in Coney Island was a Dodger fan but I was always Willie Mays Dodger fan. MR. DORINSON: Let me invite to the May 5th meeting at Cyclone's Park. I am speaking on the Brooklyn Dodgers. You will be my honored guest. I speak in strong opposition to the proposed alteration and district liens. As the vice president of the Madison Marine Civic Association with compasses a huge chunk of territory and represents over 500 families, I know the wrenching effects of change on a stable, peaceful and diverse community. Too often we tamper with tradition and plunge into the chill waters of change for the sake of change. As a history teacher with over 40 years of experience I can site chapter and verse wherein local populations were thrown into disarray as a result of proposal from above without adequate consultation from below. The painful examples of Robert Moses spring to mind. When Moses ran the Cross Bronx Expressway down the throats of local residents he drove a dagger into the hearts of a once vibrant community. I know my aunt used to live there on 176th Street. Now that entire neighborhood is gone with Margaret Mitchell's wind. The imperious Mr. Moses tried to destroy downtown Manhattan with a landbridge spanning the Canal Street area. And an irate citizenry happily stood up to this would be Caesar and stopped this horrendous project. We in Brooklyn were not so lucky. Ebbitts Field was demolished because of lines redrawn. That Brooklyn Dodger team that brought us together which brought Jackie Robinson historically to the four in 1947 is no longer there. We in Brooklyn have suffered as a result. Redrawing the political district lines must be stopped by concerted action. To withdraw the lines is to invite another blow to the vital center of our stable communities. Where is (inaudible) sense in Yiddish, in English, in these hastily, arbitrarily and insensitively contrived dividing line. The plan as proposed would truncate current communities and arbitrarily lump others into a mish mosh. Mill Basin for example, the new plan joins East Flatbush. Borough Park becomes an appendix of Kings Highway, Kings Bay and Madison Marine. While Gerritsen Beach and Marine Park will be fussed with Bay Ridge. The most bizarre imaginations bring Manhattan Beach into the lap of East New York and Brownsville. At the same time that Brighton Beach will share a Senate District with Staten Island. Will Neil Simon write a sequel? Brighton Beach Staten Island memoirs. Why not Rogers and Hart and take Manhattan. When you drive a stake into the vibrant, viable, compact, contiguous communities you invite the urban blight that threatened to incinerate our beloved city in the 1970's. Let me speak to another passion, education. SENATOR SKELOS: We are just about at the five minute point. We are trying to do that so that everybody has a chance. MR. DORINSON: All right. I teach history at Long Island University. I also served on Community School Board 22 for seven years. In that span I learned that a district that ranks at the top in reading and math attracts an active parent population, raises real estate values and offers hope where once despair reigned to many old and new citizens. In District 1, Senate District we enjoy the fruits of outstanding education. Ladies and gentlemen I urge you to reconsider. Do not act in hast. Do not move against the people's will. Do not fall prey to a feisty embargain. Do not sell us out for what appears on paper as a rational solution. For when you take that first step you are free and then there is no exit from the second step. Avoid the snars of Satan. I don't mean to preach to you but the road to hell is paved with good intentions and bad judgment. Listen to our chorus of protest. Put your trust in what Abraham Lincoln called the better angels of your nature. Thank you for your consideration. SENATOR SKELOS: Sarah Lee McWhite. Thank you for your patience. MS. McWHITE: My name is Sarah Lee McWhite. I live in Bensonhurst. I say that that way because most folks don't believe that there are minorities in Bensonhurst. There are. There happen to be 1,756 families in Bensonhurst of color. So be real advised of that. The reason I say it like that, we are about to do district lines. Right now my State Senator is Seymour Lachman. When you go back upstate, take him with you. We don't want him. He doesn't even know where Marlboro is let alone find it. Everybody here who spoke about Sampson. We want him. If you don't we'll take him. We like the lines the way you put them. District 19 Marlboro is right there. We want him. We want to stay. Leave us in your plan. Marine Basin, all of you who don't want to be in Staten Island fine. You don't have to have him, you don't have to have him. But we have something in common with him. He knows where we are and he is willing to work with us. Secondly, let's talk about our assembly please. I don't even believe who sat down and drew that. I need to get you a coloring book and some crayons. One thing you really need to do is look at the districts that you are drawing lines on. Marlboro Houses is just that, a development. You have cut it in half. You have drawn a line straight down the middle of it and said that half belongs to one person and this half belongs to somebody else. Look at our development, and I should tell you I work for the New York City Housing Authority. We have got developments in the Bronx which have six to seven different representatives. That's insane for one development. I don't want six to seven people I have to go to get something done. Public housing is in trouble. We have a lot of things that are coming down the pike. We don't need representatives here, there and everywhere. We need representatives that understand what we are doing. Adele Cohen is our Assemblywoman. We want to keep her. Not half of her, all of her. I don't want Colton. I don't want the rest of those clowns who don't even know where we are until election day then they come down with a promise. You can't promise to take away my freedom. Marlboro has 28 buildings. Three of them are 16 stories tall. The funny thing about it, the side that you took has those three highrises, strangely enough. Those folks would be segregated from the rest of us. That's not right. You can't do that to my development. That is my home. When you draw your lines let's see, go to your house, say guess what darling I am drawing a line down the middle of our living room. You live on that side and I live over here. See how well it goes over. It won't. That's what you are doing to us. I will give you something that you really can think about. When I first moved into Marlboro in 1984, there was a war going on. The people on the low side hated the people on the high side. That's numbers 1 through 12. 13 through 28, they are the high side. The kids used to fight and kill each other over low and high. We fought real hard to change that mentality. Now here you come and you put that line right back down the street. You say to me and to our children that what we did was for not. Because as long as the government can come in here and separate us, you can might as well get out there and separate yourselves. Do us a favor, District 19, leave us in it. The assembly district give me back my development in whole. A whole. All of it. Not one part of it all of it and I'll thank you forever. SENATOR SKELOS: Sandra Coward. Is Sandra here? Eddie Brumfield. Is Eddie here? MS. COWARD: I am a resident of Marlboro Projects. I lived there 25 years. I am not going to speak over what Sarah Lee spoke on because I agree with her 100%. I don think this would be the worst thing you do is to come into Marlboro (inaudible). SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you very much. Sheryl Robertson. MR. BRUMFIELD: Good afternoon ladies and gentlemen. I think my colleague Sarah Lee (inaudible) and Assemblywoman Adele Cohen spoke enough. We understand what is happening. I would like to add a couple of points. My name is Minister Eddie Brumfield. What I have basically to say is this. Section 2 of the Voting Rights Act of 1965 protects voters from any election process that deprives anyone of an effective vote. If you split Marlboro in half, there is no effective vote. This line we insist that our votes not be diluted or split. Now we are sufficiently large enough and geographically concentrated to make up about 30% of the vote in the 46th Assembly District. If the whole development switches over to the 47th Assembly District we will be about 2% of the vote. I don't believe that's a good idea. I am speaking in particular about Marlboro Houses. Redistricting often determines if a community can elect representatives of a group of their choice and it also can influence whether or not our elected officials will respond to our demands or our groups demand. Under the proposal of the redistricting as it is now our community had been divided, split between the 46th and 47th Assembly District. Our development is being split in half. Do you split a baby in half? If you do the baby dies. If I split myself or you split yourself in half you die also. We both die. That's economically, socially and politically. It seems to me that we should not be split or that we should remain in the 46th Assembly District where we can have a voice or a say as a whole. SENATOR SKELOS: Sheryl Roberston. Joseph Packer. Hyacinth Taylor. Evelyn Brothers. Judith Hughes. Mildred Mitchell. MS. MITCHELL: Good afternoon ladies and gentlemen. I have heard everything that people have said and it was good. I am here to add on we do not need to be split. I live in Marlboro, a tenant in Marlboro as well. We are married and God said who he join together let no man put us under. I ask you all to take a look at your schedule again and rethink and do no spilt. SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you. Reverend Myrick. REVEREN MYRICK: Good afternoon to the task committee. My name is Reverend George Myrick, Jr. I am currently a minister at (inaudible) Baptist Church. I am also the president of Marlboro Tenant Association. Sarah Lee and Ms. Cohen have said everything that needs to be said. Except I would like to say something to Senator Richard Dollinger. You had asked someone earlier today if the relining of the community would affect their church or home. They said no. The relining of Marlboro community will split us up in two different sections. We do not need that. If you start splitting things up then we go back to the old time way. My thing to you is keep us at District 46. If you keep us at District 46 then you will take the shackles off my hands so I can climb. Take the shackles off my feet so I can walk. Take the bridle of my tongue so I can talk. SENATOR SKELOS: Daniel Botnick, Crown Heights. Howard Katz. You have been patient. MR. KATZ: My name is Howard Katz. I feel the presently redistricting plan will be a slap in the face to my fellow Brooklynites. This plan is a disgrace. We are losing out once again to the republican majority namely speaker Bruno. He hates the people downstate so much this reapportionment plan is the way is punishing the people of New York City. By doing so Sheepshead Bay, Manhattan Beach, Kings Highway, Mill Basin and Flatbush are losing out on our representation from the senate. Senator Carl Kruger is the current representative from the senate. Now he is a democrat. If he were a republican this would never be happening. The people of New York City deserve better and should not give into Senator Bruno and the republican majority. In closing I still ask you what happened September 11th? The people of New York City and Brooklyn deserve better. Maybe it's time for Mr. Bruno to retire because he sure as hell does not represent the people of New York City and never will. SENATOR SKELOS: Ruben Safir. MR. SAFIR: You are from Long Island? Welcome back home to Brooklyn. I want to tell you my name is Ruben Safir first of all. I am here representing Fillmore Gardens which is in Mill Basin. It is in Senator Kruger's district. In fact I have seen some people here including Dorothy here who I haven't seen since I was 14. I grew up in Canarsie and I was raised in Mill Basin and graduated from Long Island University. Minor some time I spent in the military this is where I raised my family of six kids. In 1996 I started an online community for Brooklyn called Brooklyn online which is the oldest and the largest Brooklyn based website with over 100,000 Brooklyn based residents that are logged into it. Plus another 200,000 or so ex-Brooklynites like yourself who are logged into it. So you can try to do the calculation of how many people I represent. I have no idea anymore. I was asked by my grandfather to represent Fillmore Gardens and by Mr. Kruger to discuss the redistricting. I was rather upset when I saw the district lines. Even more than representing Fillmore Gardens or representing the position of our incumbent, I represent both Brooklyn and Flatbush and Mill Basin in general. There has been a lot of testimony as I have been sitting here listening which is rather disheartening which a lot of it has been I am not a part of this neighborhood. This is a different neighborhood and they are different from me. I am not a part of the neighborhood, they are different from me. Because they are different we can't draw lines this way or that way. To a degree this argument is true. But there is a very large degree that this argument is not true. I want to congratulate you on doing something that is quite remarkable. You have unified this borough unlike any other force I have ever seen. Because everybody disagrees with this redistricting scheme completely. What makes Brooklyn special in my opinion and I have said this a lot. Now other people have repeated it after I invented this expression is that Brooklyn is the smallest town in America. By this what I mean is what makes Brooklyn important is it's small community neighborhoods. For years over 15 years I have lived within a 10 block radius and knew almost everybody in my community. Where I couldn't get up in the morning without getting a cup of coffee without knowing everybody in the neighborhood. What would happen is that overtime because of changes, lines would change and you would have to do a whole runaround to try to figure out who is representing us this week. This is not a good situation to be in. Now there has also been, I have heard, a kind of interesting thing of people complaining, leave the districts alone. That's completely not possible. Brooklyn has grown in population in respect to the rest of the state. It clearly needs to get another district in here. Possibly two. In fact if you want to send us a third, we will take a third. The thing is it's not the problem that we are trying to get more districts here. Because this is admirable. We need high representation. People complaining about the 1965 Civil Rights Act are completely correct. The problem is that the redistricting plans that you guys came up with is absolutely broken. It's completely broken. I don't know where this came from. If you walk through the borough, if you go from Manhattan Avenue to Greenpoint or to Coney Island to the cyclones and you hit Kings Highway and Carroll Gardens and (inaudible) Hill. And you go through there and I've looked at your mapping plan. Your maps represent absolutely no neighborhoods. The neighborhoods of Brooklyn is what makes Brooklyn unique. Is what makes Brooklyn small town Americans what unites Brooklyn. I was here in 1991 when the Crown Heights riots took place. In fact I was coming from the Bronx. I was working at the Bronx DA at that time. And people don't realize how dangerous that situation was because up and down Flatbush Avenue at that time people were sitting out there with megaphones trying to spread that riot. Out of Crown Heights and down Flatbush Avenue through the heart of Brooklyn. It almost exploded in Marty Markowitz's face. The reason why that happens, a lot of the reasons why this happens is because there are a lot of communities that are represented in New York, Brooklyn in particular because the way the streets are laid out and the way the subways are laid out and so on and so forth. If these people in these communities feel natural and the feel natural alliances and these alliances need to feel a sense of empowerment. If they don't have a sense of empowerment they are going to explode in our face again. By drawing district lines as irresponsibly and as immorally as they were drawn in this example, the net result is that we are going to have civil strife for the next decade. We just went through a decade of this. I don't want to go through this again. We have spent 10 years trying to, a gentlemen from the Brooklyn Dodgers was talking about how the Dodgers collapsed. (Inaudible) as they are so fondly remembered as opposed to the beloved Giants is because Ebbitts Field is right there in the neighborhood. You could watch games literally from the rooftop. You could walk to Ebbitts Field from half the borough. This gave them a huge sense of community. It was this sense of community that literally kept this borough together for many years. Then what happened when the Dodgers left? Literally that sense of community collapsed and everybody just took off through the interboro and went out to Long Island. SENATOR SKELOS: You have to start -- MR. SAFIR: I am closing up right now. It's very important first of all to throw this plan out. This plan has got to go. It's also important I would answer to your question about incumbent. Is is important to keep incumbent? Maybe, maybe not. In this case though I can tell you though that Carl Kruger represents a natural constituency. It seems that Samuel also represents a natural constituency. If we need to get more districts into the borough that we have to find a natural constituencies and make more. If we don't this is going to wind up being a disaster. (Inaudible) are going to blow the streets. Which is what happened previously. We can't have that. We need to build a system, that governs in this borough because the way we live next to each other, it's built intolerance, mutual understanding and empowerment. Empowerment, the only way you are going to empower them is drawing first honest district lines for representatives with integrity. SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you very much and thank you for you patience. William Wilkins. Elias Weir W-E-I-R. Edmond Dweck D-W-E-C-K. MS. RAFE: Obviously I am not Mr. Dweck. He asked me to come in his place. My name is Serena Rafe. I am with the Sephardic Voters League. As someone who is active in the community I am here today to talk to you about changing the lines of the senate district. I feel that the impact of this plan will have on Syrian Sephardic Community which is a community that I am very active in and represent. We are a very long established community of interests. We know that this plan will have a negative impact on our ability to have one voice as a community. I am asking you to change the lines. I appeal to you to change the lines in a way that allows our community to stay together. We are thousands and thousands and thousands of people in the Syrian community. The community is the largest Sephardic community in the world outside of Israel. This plan does not protect our community at all. In fact it divides us right down the middle. We are a community that has stayed together for a hundred years in this country. We are people from Iran, Sirocco, and Moracco, Egypt. We are Jews who left Arab land. We have spent enormous amounts of money on infrastructure in our community, in our homes, in our synagogues, in our schools, in our community centers, in our micas, in our cemetery. Millions, I am not talking about thousands, I am talking about millions upon millions upon millions of dollars spent on not only on infrastructure but on real estate. Without government assistance we have absorbed our immigrants from the Arab countries. We have built senior citizen centers. We have built a permanent long lasting infrastructure in our community by investing millions and millions of dollars. My neighbors and I deserve better than what the Legislative Task Force has put forth on reapportionment. This new district doesn't make sense. It completely divides our neighborhood. Why is this community being ripped down the middle? There is no reason for it. Why are the residents of Manhattan Beach in the same district as the people from East New York and Brownsville? Why do you have one section of this district that goes from East 7th Street to Knapp Street? One block wide. To join two neighborhoods that are completely separate. I don't understand why Brighton Beach share a senate district with people on the north shore of Staten Island. I don't understand why Bay Ridge is divided and out with people from Staten Island. I don't understand why Strickland Avenue in Mill Basin is connected to people in East Flatbush. Why is the Sephardic community, the community center it's main synagogue where the chief rabbi is, being put into separate neighborhoods? Our special needs are not going to be addressed the way the new senate district is proposed. Our seniors will be separated from their houses of worship. The entitlement program that many of our citizens receive will have a much harder time reaching the people that they are supposed to help. Are the poor, the frail, the sick, the homebound supposed to suffer because of this redistricting plan? I don't think that's what you intended. But that's how your proposal is being seen by our community. SENATOR SKELOS: Could you start to summarize because we are trying to keep it to five minutes for everybody. MS. RAFE: Sure. The purposes of redistricting is to provide a fair and equitable representation for communities based on the census. This is not a fair and equitable representation. This will divide our community and it will not allow us to combine to have a united voice. The current proposal makes your job and the job of local government more difficult. The Sephardic Community needs to stand as one voice and be heard as a united constituency. SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you very much. Marilyn Chernin. Is Marilyn here? MS. CHERNIN: Good afternoon. I would like to thank you all for giving me the opportunity to speak to you about something that is a great concern to me. My name is Marilyn Chernin. I am the newly elected Vice President of the Manhattan Beach Community Group and a member of a Community Advisory Board of Coney Island Hospital. I am here to represent myself and my community and to voice our strong opposition to the proposed changes in the boundaries that define the 21st Senate District. My neighborhood was shocked and very concerned when we first became aware of the proposal. We couldn't understand why a plan that was so unworkable and proposes such radical changes that would have an immediate and extremely negative impact on our community and our lives was put forth. Was it as many have said to serve the personal political motives of some? Could we be the victims of these motives? The 21st Senate District as it is now designed is compact, contiguous and representing natural community boundaries. It is what a district by law is supposed to be. This makes sense. According to the new lines, I think we heard this before and you know that Manhattan Beach will now be linked as a district with the neighborhoods of East New York and Brownsville. What connects these communities is water and the Belt Parkway. Water and cars going 60 miles an hour. Not people. Not common concerns. This doesn't make sense. In this plan Manhattan Beach becomes an isolated community and as such I fear cannot be adequately represented. Our voting strength will be irrelevant. Instead of speaking with one voice our community will be split into weaker voices. It will be more difficult for us to get what we need to remain the community that we love. If this plan is adopted I wonder where our representatives will reside. We are very able to reach our senator's office easily by car or by public transportation. We can avail ourselves of services he provides. I think of the seniors in our community who like to feel connected to both the services and the ability to speak to their elected representative. How will they reach him or her? Why rob them of this privilege or the entire community of this opportunity? It is clear that with the adoption of this proposal some communities will be hurt and I fear that it will be Manhattan Beach. I don't want to go on and on and repeat things that have been said before. I would like to ask you who have the responsibility and the burden to make judgments that affect our lives so profoundly to recommend that this plan must be withdrawn. SENATOR SKELOS: Councilman Steve DiBrienza. Leon Altschuler. Stan Hirshkorn. Let me get the right order then. You are? MR. ALTSCHULER: Good afternoon everybody. I am Leon Altschuler. I am the President of the Marine Park Co-Op Association. As a resident of Marine Park I am upset and disappointed that my 21st Senate District is being ripped apart for the (inaudible) involved. Right now the 21st Senate District now is compact, contiguous and representing natural community boundaries. Everything a district is supposed to be. Under the new redistricting proposal the community of Marine Park has been ripped apart from its neighbors in Sheepshead Bay, Mill Basin and other communities that naturally surround it. Communities that share our interests and our concerns. Communities that have been linked for generations. Instead my community in Gerritsen Beach has acquired a new neighbor all the way in Bay Ridge. If you look at the map this combination of neighborhoods appears to make no sense. The only advantage I can possibly see is that if I want to complain about the Bay Ridge restaurant I would only have to go to one legislator. If this reapportionment didn't affect our lives in such a dramatic and negative way it would almost be comical. Unfortunately the consequences wouldn't be funny in the least. How can the task force on reapportionment justify connection Marine Park and Gerritsen Beach with Barry Ridge? A neighborhood that is so far away. A neighborhood with so very different sets of issues and concerns. With the 21st Senate District divided into many different pieces our voting strength will be diluted. Our special concerns will be addressed in a more complicated manner if at all. This reapportionment plan throws together neighborhoods with little or nothing in common. Districts will be harder to govern because there will be a greater number of interests involved. Unlike the current situation, districts will be made up of neighborhoods that are served by several different police precincts, community boards and school districts. With so many school districts, community boards, police precincts to contend with, the needs of one community will fall through the cracks as the needs of another constituency are being met. The schools in Marine Park and part of Community School District 22 are among the best in Brooklyn and all of New York City. Our schools could easily suffer. The legislator that serves this district also must connect with schools in community schools, District 20, a district that is both far and with its own concerns and problems. When families set down roots and established themselves in Marine Park they had faith that the government will provide them the best in day to day services that will enable them to remain here and thrive. SENATOR SKELOS: Sir can you start concluding because we are about at that five minutes. If you can start summarizing. MR. ALTSCHULER: I am almost finished. Breaking up neighborhoods that belong together, the neighborhoods of the existing 21st Senate District will diminish the delivery these services and damage a system that is accessible and effective for the people that government is supposed to serve. This plan must be withdrawn. SENATOR SKELOS: Stan Hirschkorn MR. HIRSCHKORN: Good afternoon dignitaries on the dais. My name is Stan Hirschkorn, I am the assistant chief of the Volunteers Firefighters Association for the State of New York. I want to say I am honored and privileged to be able to appear before this hearing committee on the subject of reapportionment and to provide testimony why this idea should be disbanded and laid to rest both in the borough of Brooklyn and especially in the 21st Senatorial District of Brooklyn. As someone who loves our community and knows the issues and problems that affect our resident's everyday I am here today to voice my outrage. I am shocked, angry and yes outraged over the plan to tear apart our neighborhoods by changing the lines of the 21 Senate District of Brooklyn. This radical change will have an immediate and extremely negative impact on our community and on our lives. The 21st Senate District as it now is designed represents what districts by law are supposed to be. Compact, contiguous and representing natural community boundaries. This definition is violated under the new redistricting plans. This plans does not accommodate, accomplish governments, mandate to secure and serve the people in the most effective manner possible. My neighbors and I deserve better than what the legislative task force on reapportionment comes up with. The new district lines simply make no sense. I see no logic in the fact that according to the new proposal residents of Manhattan Beach will now be linked on the district with people all the way over in East New York and Brownsville. People who live on Strickland Avenue in Mill Basin will now be connected with residents on Tilden Avenue and East Flatbush. By the same token we fail to meet the advantage of having Brighton Beach residents share a senate district with people all the way across the Verrazano Bridge in the northshore on Staten Island. We see no sense in having people living in Sheepshead Bay, Kings Bay, Kings Highway and the Madison area share a senate district with those who live in the outer reaches of Borough Park. Where is the sense of having people in Gerritsen Beach and Marine Park connected to people in Bay Ridge several miles away? With the 21st Senate district divided in this way our voting strength will be wakened. Our special needs will be addressed in a far different and more convoluted manner. The entitlement program that assists so many in our community will have a much harder time reaching the people that are supposed to help. Are the poor, elderly, the frail and the sick and homebound supposed to suffer because of the redistricting plan. I don't think this was the goal. Instead of speaking with one voice our community will be split among many weaker voices if these proposed district lines are somehow allowed to remain. The purpose of redistricting is not to toss together the neighborhoods with little or nothing in common. That is exactly what will happen if this plan is not withdrawn. Districts will be more harder to govern because there will be a greater number of interests involved. Under the new district lines districts will be made up of neighborhoods that fall under the jurisdiction of several different police precincts. Several different community boards. Several different school districts. SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. Hirschkorn if you could wrap it up. MR. HIRSCHKORN: I want to sum up my testimony with this statement to the Governor of the State of New York the Honorable George Pataki and members of the assembly state senate. We have a fabulous leader in the 21st senatorial district. The original one. The Honorable Carl Kruger. We intend to keep him there at all costs. Relay that message to Albany. Thank you and God Bless you. SENATOR SKELOS: Joe Dorenson. You did. Councilman Recchia. He's not here? Margaret Wedin W-E-D-I-N. MR. NELSON: I am Councilman Mike Nelson. SENATOR SKELOS: Pardon me. MR. NELSON: I am Councilman Mike Nelson. Charles was supposed to speak for me. SENATOR SKELOS: We have an order here. You are Councilman Nelson? MR. NELSON: Yes. SENATOR SKELOS: We are going by order here. MR. NELSON: He is my chief of staff and he couldn't make it so I was going to speak for him. SENATOR SKELOS: No, no. We are going by order. That's what I am trying to say. MR. NELSON: He was speaking for me. SENATOR SKELOS: No, no you are signed up at the end here. MR. NELSON: Someone put me on after Charles? SENATOR SKELOS: Why don't we stay by order. I think that's what the people would like. Charles Kahn. Douglas Blancero. MR. BLANCERO: Good afternoon. I am speaking on behalf, I serve as a secretary treasurer of youth organization called Youth Dares that serves the Sheepshead Bay area of Brooklyn. I just want to speak on a couple of topics and you have heard many of them. The way it was explained to was that the redistricting should be something that is compact and contiguous. It seems that where the lines are drawn at this moment or proposed at this moment would not fulfill that. The way the lines exist today and as they have existed for the last ten years does fulfill that legally. Again you have heard how the different areas are connected. It seems ridiculous to connect two neighborhoods by a bridge or or by a large body of water. You also heard about co-terminality. Again as someone who lived through that time of co-terminality and someone who is advocated in the community it has made life a lot easier for all the residents to be able to realize that in a certain area there is one precinct, one fire department, one sanitation department, a single set of elected officials. There is a great book called Winning the Brain Race. In it one of the authors states that he feels that we are creating a generation of young people that does not understand or appreciate the spirit of democracy. I think one of those reasons is that we make it very difficult for them to become involved in the process. When we tell a young person in a neighborhood that they have to cross a bridge to get to an elected official in another neighborhood. If we are looking to nature and bring another generation of involved Americans, this is not the way to do it. I think we need to look down to the future to see them becoming involved, I think if we are looking for young families to become part of the community we need to offer that stability to them as well. I realize there must be a law that must be followed. I guess what I would ask on behalf of those young people and those families are that laws should be imposed or followed up with compassion, consideration, reason and common sense. It seems the way the lines are being proposed they don't follow that. It doesn't seem to be common sense to connect two very different communities. Not only because they are different but because they are miles away from each other and they are only connected by a bridge. We would ask that you reconsider the lines as they are being proposed. SENATOR SKELOS: Gary Souffrant S-O-U-F-F-R-A-N-T. Geraldine Matthews. Ronald Broth. Diane Broth is next. MR. BENJAMIN: Hello. Ronald Broth could not be here and he asked that I speak instead. My name is Michael Benjamin. Hello Senators and assemblypersons. Welcome to Brooklyn. I am a member of the Bergen Beach Civic Association. A member of the Bergen Beach Youth Organization and Volunteer Coach. A member of Community Board 18 and a committee chairperson there. A member of the 63rd Precinct community council. A member of the P.S. 312 Parents Association. Past President of the Rambam Canarsie Lodge of (inaudible) and so on. As a resident of Bergen Beach I would like to express my outrage and anger over the plan to change the lines of the 21st Senatorial District which threatens the future of one of Brooklyn's greatest neighborhoods. The 21st Senate Distrit now represents what districts by law are supposed to be, compact, contiguous and consisting of natural community boundaries. According to the new district lines however this has all been changed. Residents of my neighborhood in Bergen Beach have been ripped apart from our natural and logical neighbors in Marine Park and have been connected instead to a district that extends all the way to Tilden Avenue in East Flatbush. A district with it's separate problems and it's own challenges. With the 21st Senate District divided into so many different places and pieces, our voting strength will be diluted. Our special concerns will be addressed in a more complicated and convoluted manner if at all. This reapportionment plan throws together neighborhoods with nothing in common, Districts will be harder to govern because there will be a greater number of diverse interests involved. Instead of the current system, a system that happens to work affectively, districts will be made up of neighborhoods that are served by several different police precincts, community boards and school districts. My Bergen Beach neighborhood for instance includes one of the highest performing elementary schools in New York City P.S. 312. Where my seven year old son Ian is a second grader. My oldest son Andrew is a Freshman at Harvard University which I think is testimonial to the quality of New York City's very best public schools. Maintaining our schools is so important so that we can keep the Bergen Beach community among the most desirable to live in. I don't want to fail to mention that P.S. 312 is also the home to the Anthony J. Genovese Environmental Center which is a world class environmental center that is currently being expanded because of the good work that they do throughout our neighborhood. How will an elected official juggle the needs of this and other high performing schools and the needs of many struggling and low performing schools at the other end of this district? P.S. 312 will suffer as a result and that is something that none of us wants to see. With so many school districts, community boards, police precincts to contend with, the needs of one neighborhood will easily fall through the cracks as the needs of another constituency are being met. When families set down roots in Bergen Beach they had faith that New York City and State will provide them the best in day to day care, services that will enable them to remain here and thrive. Breaking up neighborhoods will diminish the delivery these services and damage a system that is accessible and effective for the people that government is supposed to serve. This plan must withdrawn. Thank you for your continued interest in this very important matter. SENATOR SKELOS: Diane Broth. MS. CIRILLO: Diane Broth could not be here. She asked me to appear on her behalf. My name is Louisa Cirillo. I am a Director of community affairs at Menorah Home and Hospital in Manhattan Beach. Thank you for your time. As someone who loves the Manhattan Beach community and knows the issues and problems that affect my neighbors and I everyday I am here to voice my anger and dismay over the plan to isolate the community of Manhattan Beach by changing the lines of the 21 Senate District. The radical change will have an immediate and extremely, extremely negative impact on our community and on our lives. The 21st Senate District as it now is designed represents what districts by law are supposed to be, compact, contiguous and representing natural community boundaries. This definition is violated under the new redistricting proposal. This fact is especially glaring when you look at the proposed 19th Senate District which would include the community of Manhattan Beach. According to the new lines residents of Manhattan Beach will now be linked as a district with neighborhoods of East New York and Brownsville. What makes Manhattan Beach contiguous with the other communities and this district you may ask, the answer is water. There is absolutely nothing connecting Manhattan Beach with the rest of the 19th District, just water. A community that is so isolated cannot be adequately represented. For a community that is so unique that it is home to Kingsborough Community College, a community that is one of the showplaces of Brooklyn the consequences of legislative redistricting could be dreadful. With the the 21st Senate district divided into many different pieces our voting strength will be diluted and our special concerns will be addressed in a more complicated manner if at all. It actually really disturbs me that I go to the polls and I vote for somebody like Carl Kruger and I voted for him because I felt that he really knew the community and that he is always there. Only last year there was an emergency at Menorah Nursing Home where we lost all our power. Within minutes the senator was there for us helping us get all the services that we needed to take care of those residents at that home. When we go to the polls and we vote I feel somehow by this redistricting that I am losing my rights. That somebody that I didn't vote for is now going to represent me. I feel that that is really unfair. That is why I am here today. This reapportionment plan throws together neighborhoods with nothing in common. Districts will be harder to govern because there will be a greater number of interests involved. Under the proposal districts are made up of neighborhoods served by several different police precincts, community boards and school districts. Manhattan Beach is home to P.S. 195 one of the highest performing elementary schools in New York City. Maintaining the highest quality of this school is a major challenge. I attend every Manhattan Beach, or as many as I can, Manhattan Beach Community group meetings and Senator Kruger is always there or somebody representing his office. He knows day by day what is going in that neighborhood. It is so important to have somebody representing you that knows the community as well as he does. He knows every corner of the community and every different ethnic group that are in that community and what their needs are. Doing so is important so that we can keep the Manhattan Beach community desirable. How will an elected official juggle the needs of our community? With so many school districts, community boards, police precincts to contend with, the needs of one neighborhood will easily fall through the cracks as the needs of another constituency are being met. When families set down roots in Manhattan Beach they had faith that New York City and State will provide them the best in day to day care, services that will enable them to remain here and thrive. Breaking up neighborhoods will diminish the delivery these services and damage a system that is accessible and effective for the people that government is supposed to serve. This plan must be withdrawn or it really doesn't pay for us to go to the polls and vote anymore. SENATOR SKELOS: Henni Fisher. MS. FISHER: I am Henni Fisher. I am Director of the Alzheimer's and Aging Resource Center of Brooklyn. It happens to be my own social service agency. It is located in Sheepshead Bay. I have lived in the southern part of Brooklyn for 40 years or more. My family has lived there for 40 years. My kids attended Sheepshead Bay schools. I am on Community Board 15. I am chairperson of the mental health committee. I am also the co-chair of the New York State Society for Clinical Social Work, the Brooklyn Chapter and I am a member of the state board as well as a member of the Critical Incident Stress disaster Committee. New York is my home. Brooklyn is my home. I was born here, brought here. Actually my children grew up and I chose to remain in the community and start my social service agency in Sheepshead Bay because that area of Brooklyn, the southern part of Brooklyn is a real community. It is a family. Carl Kruger is one of the people that have helped make it that way. I represent Alzheimer sufferers. I represent their caregivers. They vote. They go to the polls. It is very upsetting to me to have this redistricting take place. So I am opposed to it. I am opposed to changing the lines in the 21st senate district as well as the other districts that lines are proposed to be changed. I think it will be awful to break a community that's a family. New York especially since 9/11 needs home, family a sense of community. There are a large number of seniors out in the southern part of Brooklyn. They know who to go to. They know that they will let attention. Carl Kruger is all over the place. He's got high energy. Again it's a real family. So please I urge you to withdraw this and not do it. It's very hurtful to the people of Brooklyn. SENATOR SKELOS: Leonard Silver. Tom Scalise. Is Tom here? Georgette Scalise also. MR. SCALISE: My name is Tom Scalise. I am a resident of Sheepshead Bay for almost 65 years. My roots were planted my grandparents and onto my grandchildren now who were taught, I was taught. We taught them to stay with the community to help enhance it. We've done well. I was glad to this point as for this redistricting thing. Senator Kruger (inaudible) people have voted for him and working with us. We have our own needs in Sheepshead Bay, Plum Beach, Gerritsen Beach and Manhattan Beach. It's different than those other communities trying to put into this pot. It's all fine and well your looking for something for the senate or whatever political thing. I am a simple layman. I don't get into that part of politics. I am here to enhance my community. All I can ask you at this point not to only open your ears, but you heart, reach in and understand and feel how we feel. Please withdraw this redistricting plan. SENATOR SKELOS: Georgette. MS. SCALISE: Hello I ma Georgette Scalise. I live in Sheepshead Bay. I was born and raised here 60 years ago. I have been living in Sheepshead Bay all my life. I am a member of the Bay Improvement Group. We try to do things that are good for our community and for Sheepshead Bay which I love very much. I think that our needs might be a little bit different than some of the other people's because we have our fishing fleet and our water area. To us, to me that's very important. I believe that dividing the 21st district might be detrimental to our fishing fleets specifically. I don't think that it would be good for us to be involved with Borough Park at this point because they haven't got the same needs as we do. I would appreciate it if you could try to not divide our area up please. Thank you so much. SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you for being here. Mary Galinsky. MS. GALINSKY: Good afternoon. My name is Mary Galinsky and I am a resident of Sheepshead Bay. I have heard so much this afternoon about co- terminality, contiguous, natural community boundaries. One of the things that I would say that is of great interest is the fact that Gerritsen Beach and Marine Park would be connected to Bay Ridge. This is done by some (inaudible) arrangement which separates the north side of Avenue Z and the south side of Avenue Y and connects us to Bay Ridge too. I can't see any geographical logic to any of the things that are being done. In addition communities are so important and so are neighborhoods. We all know that strong communities and strong neighborhoods have so much virtue. One of the largest being that they reduce crime. Please do away with this plan. Let us build communities and neighborhoods that are strong. Give us back to Manhattan Beach, Gerritsen Beach, Marine Park and Manhattan Beach which are the natural boundaries. SENATOR SKELOS: Reynold Mason. MR. MOORE: Good afternoon. My name is Collin Moore. I am registered at 192 but Judge Mason and I did a joint paper so he asked -- SENATOR SKELOS: We are going to try and stay in order if we could. Susan Lasher. Is Susan here? Bob Hoffman. MR. HOFFMAN: Hello I am Bob Hoffman. Resident of Gerritsen Beach. Member of the Gerritsen Beach Property Owners and Member of Community Board 15. I am here to speak about the proposed new 22nd senate district. Looking at the map the district is obviously an example of gerrymandering connecting Gerritsen Beach to Bay Ridge through a very narrow tunnel between Avenues Y and Z. The new district will also separate the fishing fleets in Plum Beach and Sheepshead Bay which have many common interests. The new district also separates areas that have a common interest to the adjacent saltwashers and the new nature center on Avenue U in Marine Park. My Senator Carl Kruger is a very active senator in everything to guardrails to oil spills. He is very supportive of Gerritsen Beach. He frequently attends all community meetings. The new district lines will totally change his constituency and the community he is being drawn out of, my community would suffer. In the new district I would lose my voice. The population and their votes would be in Bay Ridge. Any new senator that would occupy that district would spend all his time and attention in Bay Ridge where his basis support would be and no in Gerritsen Beach. I would hope that you would reconsider the new district lines and ten years from now when the democrats control the senate, comprises may now, may be remembered. SENATOR SKELOS: Dr. Oleg Gutnik. DR. GUTNIK: Good afternoon ladies and gentlemen. My name is Oleg Gutnick. Senator Skelos, Assemblyman Parment, members of the distinguished panel. Thank you very much on a great job you are doing. (Inaudible) to 182 people with a few exceptions that spoke prior to me I wasn't born and raised in this great country. I came to America 22 years ago from the former Soviet Union. This country gave me everything that I have. I came here and couldn't speak any English and didn't have a penny to my name. I am a doctor with a very nice practice in south Brooklyn. Practice obstetrics and gynecology. Besides that I am a republican district leader in 46 A.D. I am a delegate of the Kings County Medical Society to the House of Delegates of the State Medical Society. I am also a special assistant to the Governor through the Bureau of Refugee and Immigrant Affairs, the borough of Brooklyn the citizenship (inaudible). What I am here now to speak for or on behalf or fighting for any given appointed official. I am not here to really discuss any particular district. I would like to think for a second about a subject that probably wasn't discussed here today and I have been only through the entire proceedings. According to the census 2000 and there are recent numbers that just came out last week, about 850,000 people came from the Republic of Soviet Union in the last 30 years to New York City. More than half of them reside in Kings County, most of them in south Brooklyn. As the communities from Bay Ridge all the way to Starrett City. We build our life here. A life for our families. We came from the country that never allowed us to express our voice. Our vote was very important. We had to come to vote. I'm talking about myself. I am talking about the generation of people who grew up there. They had to otherwise they would lose their jobs and they would go to jail. Who they voted for. It didn't matter to them. I think that the legislative task force on reapportionment, and now I am speaking to both (inaudible) I am addressing this issue to the assembly and I am addressing this issue to the senate. Please take into account this community. This community of Russian speaking immigrants in south Brooklyn. It is the second largest community in New York after the Latino community in terms of growth. I would like to present to you with a copy of the statement that we have published in every English speaking and Russian speaking publication here in Brooklyn. I would like to read it. We strongly oppose the new state senate redistricting plan which will greatly diminish effective delivery of constituent services in our neighborhoods. Bay Ridge, Bensonhurst, Midwood, Ocean Parkway, Coney Island, (inaudible), Brighton Beach, Sheepshead Bay, Manhattan Beach and Starrett City. The currently proposed redistricting plan effectively disenfranchises the largest and the fastest community in south Brooklyn of Russian speaking immigrants. We regard the plan as a violation of the Federal Voting Rights Act of 1965. We believe that a redistricting should reflect the (inaudible) and traditions, (inaudible) and economical and educational levels of constituents. Communities that are not connected geographically or historically should not be forced within the same districts. We urge the legislative takes force on reapportionment to take concerns of the Russian speaking immigrant community into considerations. Thank you very much ladies and gentlemen. God Bless You and God Bless America. SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you. Assemblyman Frank Seddio. Is Assemblyman here? Rex Delia. A VOICE: Good afternoon. Mr. Delia couldn't be here this afternoon but he asked me to speak. SENATOR SKELOS: Why don't we go through the list and then at the end if we have time we will have substitute speakers. I think it's more appropriate the people that have been sitting here who registered speak first. A VOICE: Mr. Delia registered Senator. SENATOR SKELOS: I know that but you are not Mr. Delia. A VOICE: But is he not entitled to speak or have someone speak on his behalf? SENATOR SKELOS: Well you know I think it's more appropriate because now we are starting to get substitute speakers, substitute speakers. I think it's people that have had the patience to be here all day I think should speak first in fairness to them. A VOICE: Mr. Delia was here all morning. SENATOR SKELOS: Renea Smith. Daniel Maio. MR. MAIO: Good afternoon. My name is Daniel Maio. I am a map maker by profession. Last year I was the republican challenger for Manhattan Borough President. I am against the current 24th, 25th senate district. I am further against the proposed 27th senate district which overlaps most of the current 25th district extending more into Manhattan and retracting out of Brooklyn. That's where the blue line is. The blue line crosses Manhattan and Brooklyn, The current senator for the 25th district Martin Connor lives in Brooklyn Heights and has an office across the street from City Hall. 250 Broadway while most of his constituents live in Brooklyn. Half in Greenpoint, half in Williamsburgh. I am just going geographic north to south. Half of Williamsburhg. All of Brooklyn Heights. Cobble Hill. Half of Red Hook, part of Gowanus, most of south Brooklyn which is unfortunately off the map. In the proposed 27th senate district the Brooklyn senator will become more a Manhattan senator alienating further those living in Brooklyn. Today you have heard many people in Brooklyn who wants Connor to be more Brooklyn and less Manhattan. Besides tilting away power of Brooklyn voters, cohesiveness of communities has again been comprised. Greenpoint remains half. Downtown Brooklyn is delineating as a line down Adam Street currently or Jay Street as proposed. In Manhattan SoHo and Greenwich Village are being divided, even areas affected by Ground Zero, you are dividing that. I have a drastic proposal. I propose that we need a senator representing a solid downtown Manhattan. Separating from Brooklyn given the unique needs that arose since September 11th, needs that are ongoing and they actually last until the next round of redistricting as the city continues to rebuild. A large portion of federal funding currently earmarked will stretch well into the year 2005 for businesses and residents below 14th Street. The proposal would help the voters of that area to seek assistance more easily and the elected official of that area to concentrate his other energy and time, resources more effectively. Should Albany decide not to take on a downtown Manhattan senator proposal I do urge that two specific housing blocks bordering the proposed 27th senate district should not be separated. In Brooklyn, (inaudible) houses, public houses near the Lane Navy Yard, 191 Sands, 238 Sands, 202 York, 224 York, 192 Sands, 234 Sands and 237 Nassau are all part of the same complex. The first four are being included in the proposed 27th senate district and the last three in the proposed 18th senate district. I recommend combining them in the 27th. Independence Plaza North in Manhattan at Ground Zero is a major Mitchel Lama housing complex represented by one tenant association and having three tenant towers. Addresses at 80 Northmore, 40 Harrison and 310 Greenwich. The proposed boundaries crops the first two towers in the proposed 29th senate district and leaves 310 Greenwich for which the tenants I actually evacuated on September 11th, within the 27th senate district. I recommend that you combine the entire complex into the 29th district. Thank you for your consideration not just for the community of these two housing complexes over the next ten years. That's basically my proposal. SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you very much. Lystra Moore Besson B-E-S-S-S-O-N. Albert Laboy. Cynthia Sanchez. MS. SANCHEZ: Good evening. My name is Cynthia Sanchez. I live in Coney Island. I was just sitting listening to all the comments that were being made. I am not going to repeat the same thing over. At this point I would like to say one thing. I am neutral let's put it that way. Why I am saying that is because I feel very strongly that, I don't know much about geographic lines but I do know that in some way or another this (inaudible) would be beneficial to some areas and not beneficial to other areas. I believe in changes. I feel very strongly that with this coming about I think this will help some neighborhoods who doesn't have representation anyway. I am for Sampson. I will tell you that now. As far as I am concerned you can district us over there. I am not for some of the people who are in our area who are not really representing our area. I really feel very strongly that in the first place we keep saying that we are different. We are not different. We all have the same thing in common. It may be that we have a different way of approaching it but we have the same problems. I believe very strongly that one way or another that the way we handle things are different. It's not that we are different. It's the way that we handle things. Sometimes maybe if we had someone else to listen to what we are saying and it may come from another district, it may be that I have to go to another district to get help to deal with something in my district. See so I am not to say that this would be a bad idea. I am not going to say that it's bad idea because I really don't know the whole scenario of it. Until I know the whole scenario of it I am not going to be against it. I can truly say that my borough number one a little district like that should not be divided. I am against that. Because then when you knock out my borough then you begin to knock out a whole ethic group that is supported to the next assembly district. As far as the senator is concerned you can get rid of them. I don't care because they don't do anything for us anyway. This way we know if we get someone in there who is going to be concerned the people. Because we ourselves picks the people who is to represent us. If you allow us to pick who we want to represent us and it comes out on the voting line then if the person comes from, anyway we don't even know where these people stand anyway. The way I feel about it we don't even know where they are coming from. As far as I am concerned I am not going to say I am against it because I am for it. SENATOR SKELOS: Ethel White. Is Ethel here? Collin Moore. MR. MOORE: Good afternoon ladies and gentlemen of the panel. My name is Collin A. Moore. I am community activist in the Flatbush area of Brooklyn. Like thousands of other Brooklynites in this southern tier of southern Brooklyn I am a black New Yorker of Caribbean ancestry. This demographic group which constitutes the largest demographic constituency in this part of Brooklyn has experienced expediential growth during the last decade. Based upon natural increasive population and increased immigration from abroad. However, the demographics on designing the new lines show a decline in the racial of the black populations in these districts. For example, in the four assembly districts covering the section of Brooklyn the minority component of the population has in fact declined. In the 41st A.D. for example from 45% to 39%. In the 42nd A.D. from 75% to 65%. In the 43rd A.D. from 81% to 79%. In the 39th Assembly District which is renumbered 59th the minority component is 35%. Only in the 58th Assembly District has a minority percentage remained relatively high at the vigorous 86%. In the two state senatorial districts we have witnessed the same phenomenon. In the 19th senatorial district from 70% to 58%. The 20th senatorial district from 80% to 63%. Experience indicates ladies and gentlemen that a minority group needs to constitute 65% of the voting age population in order to have a reasonable chance of electing a candidate of its own choice. Therefore judged by these standards there are only two majority minority assembly districts in this part of Brooklyn. The 43rd and the 58th. There is in fact no majority minority senatorial district. We believe that there has been a substantial dilution of minority voting strength in violation of Section 2 of the Voting Rights Act of 1965. Since Brooklyn is a covered jurisdiction under Section 5 of this act in that it has a history in discriminatory voting practices, we intend to oppose preclearance for the department of justice. In order to establish I need to remind you that in order to establish dilution we need not prove subjective intent to discriminate but only a disproportionate impact on the minority population. There is clearly in this case a disproportionate impact. If it was the intention of this panel to establish new majority minority districts that comport with the growth in the (inaudible) census then the court says in Thornbrid versus Gingalls that three criteria must be met. That is to say that there must be sufficiently large population. It must be politically cohesive. I must prove that it is a victim of white block voting. We fell that in this particular case all three of this criteria have been met. For example in the Canarsie section of Brooklyn there is a large community of America population that is contiguous, that is compact and is cohesive. We feel secondly that we can prove discriminatory intent in that this particular part of Brooklyn this cohesive population has been fragmented by the creation of two predominately white districts, the 41st A.D. and the 59th. You remembered 59th assembly district which is split, fractured and fragmented, the cohesive of (inaudible) population. I join forces and join also with those residents of Manhattan and Gerritsen Beach who have claimed a dilution of their voting strength in the 21st district. I think that justice in this case needs to be colored blind in that the current and American population in the Canarsie section of Brooklyn also has a viable and cohesive claim. There needs to be a new assembly district that will comport with their increase in the (inaudible) census. SENATOR SKELOS: Mike Nelson. MR. NELSON: Obscurity should not be lost upon what happened when I went to speak for my chief of staff but that's another issue. We're angry. We're angry as hell. It appears to be quite disentail gerrymandering which is not best for the people. Best for a few I have no doubt about that. It's not what this country is about or really should about. My constituents are up in arms. You heard probably all of it. I am sure there might be something else and there to discuss but we, you anyone shouldn't really connect a district the way they have been connected. By a highway. Why don't we make the New York Thruway already. You know how many people ride, I can throw a ballot out the window and vote for somebody that might be representing that district. Let me write that one down. We need compact districts, contiguous districts. You are highly intelligent accomplished people. You know something could be done to make the lines better. I believe you do. Something is just not (inaudible) the way they were cut. Democrats, I have republican bashing thing, there are some democrats here I am sure. I saw the New York Times I don't know what is going on upstate with the assembly lines. They look kind of ugly as well. It's just the gerrymandering type of problem that we have. I am appealing to your nobler instincts, sometimes doing what's right actually works. These lines are not right. I am telling you. To be nonpartisan to change these lines. Listen to the people. I hope you do. I don't know how many people spoke, probably 150 maybe more. There has to be like 500 people here today who could not wait to speak. I just hope in conclusion that we weren't wasting our time or you weren't wasting your time. I just hope you really take this into consideration and come with something that's right. SENATOR DOLLINGER: Councilman just so you know they actually did try to connect two district in North Caroline with about 150 miles of highway. MR. NELSON: It was thrown out constitutionally? SENATOR DOLLINGER: It was thrown out by the Supreme Court. They tried the highway approach and it didn't work. SENATOR SKELOS: The gentleman that wanted to speak before. Are you still interested in speaking. MR. SPINARDI: My name is Charles Spinardi and I am speaking for Rex Delia who was here this morning. As I was saying I am a lifelong resident of Bergen Beach. I am the fourth generation representative of my family who resides in this community and what is currently the 21st senatorial district. Speaking on behalf of Mr. Delai and other neighbors of mine who share similar interests, we are outraged. I know you have heard that word used often today. But it sums it up. It sums up the sentiments of the community. I am here to voice my angry and upset over the proposal to chop up this district. The 21st senate district as it currently exists is a legally appropriate senatorial district. It meets the legal criteria for a senatorial district. It's compact, contiguous and represents the natural community boundaries. The newly proposed district lines however would tear the Bergen Beach Mill Basin community from its historical sister community Marine Park and would connect our communities to East Flatbush, a district with its own problems and challenges. With the 21st senate district torn a sunder as proposed our voting strength would certainly be diluted. Our special concerns would be addressed in a more complicated manner if at all. While we are all Brooklynites we do have in many cases divergent and varying interests. The proposal does not logically seem to account for how those varying and divergent interest will all be meet. The reapportionment plan proposes throwing together neighborhoods with very little if anything in common. Districts will be harder to govern because there will be a greater number of interests involved. Instead of the current system which is a system that happens to work effectively district will be made up by divergent neighborhoods that are served by several different police precincts as you have heard before, community boards and school districts. We happen to have an excellent school district in the 21st senatorial district. We have been blessed with great leadership that has provided us with essential services. Our concern as you can imagine is losing those services and losing that quality of life and education that has kept us and our families in this community for so long. We are concerned again that our voice will be muffled, that our interests will be diluted and that basically the new district that is proposed will create a situation that will not serve the best interests of the electoral but will simply intensify competing interests of hardworking Brooklynites. That's what we have in common, we are all hard working Brooklynites. We do have a lot of independent and divergent interests. We are concerned that the redistricting proposed is going to put us in a situation where we are going to be competing for a pool of very limited resources. Thank you for you time and your consideration. SENATOR SKELOS: Per Odman is it? MR. ODMAN: Good afternoon. My name is Per Odman. This is a map of the current assembly district. As a member of Vinegar Hill where I have lived for the last 26 years I am opposed to exclusion of my neighborhood from the proposed 52nd assembly district. The northern most section of the current district includes Brooklyn Heights, downtown Brooklyn, Brooklyn and Manhattan Bridges, Fulton Ferry Landing in blue, (inaudible) in green and Vinegar Hill in yellow. The apparently arbitrarily red line irregularly cuts Brooklyn's maybe most historic area in half. Together our three neighborhoods make up Brooklyn's oldest residential, commercial and industrial area. Also Fulton Ferry landing and Vinegar Landing are designated historic districts, were listed on the National Register of Historic Places. We have a lot in common and should stay together. Geographically our three neighborhoods are pretty much cut off from the rest of Brooklyn. Surrounded by the blocks of Brooklyn Heights to the southwest, the Brooklyn Queens Expressway and its ramps to the south as well as (inaudible) Houses, the Brooklyn Navy Yard to the east and or our sea the East River to the north. These very physical borders set us apart. The Brooklyn Historical Society's just recently published book, Fulton Ferry Landing, DUMBO, Vinegar Hill and Neighborhood History Guide just reinforces my argument to keep our three neighborhoods within the proposed 52nd assembly district. All ten of you have been given a copy of the book. Fulton Ferry, Vinegar Hill published in December 1990 but in New York City Department of City Planning is a 43 page study which twelve years recommended the change to then existing zoning from manufacturing to residential and commercial. One more example that the city has treated Fulton Ferry Landing, DUMBO and Vinegar Hill as one cohesive area. (Inaudible) residential as well as commercial development taking place in our three waterfront neighborhoods it is important to have one unified assemblyperson behind us. There are a number of residents of DUMBO and Vinegar Hill which are being cut off by the proposed district only amounts to 358. If (inaudible) has no bearing on whether DUMBO and Vinegar Hill blocks are included in the proposed district or not. I urge the members of the task force to retain DUMBO and Vinegar Hill within the proposed 52nd assembly district. A footnote there are less than 150 residents in Vinegar Hill. 12 of us have written you and asked that you retain Vinegar Hill in the proposed 52nd Assembly District. My neighbors are at work so they could not read their letters but they have been submitted to the task force. SENATOR SKELOS: Is there anybody else that was scheduled to speak that cares to speak and we passed over. Yes sir. Your name? This will be our last speaker. MR. SMITH: Thank you I will try to be brief. I don't expect that I will use the entire five minutes. As I said my name is Barry Smith. I am the President of (inaudible) Civic Association. We are a group of 2,000 families residing at this point at the northern end of the 21st senatorial district. At the outset I would like to thank you for giving us assembly districts that we personally can live with. You impacted on our way of doing things in a very small way. For that I do thank you. I do believe this is not the case in the senatorial 21st district. The redistricting ten years ago we made some improvements from being given two state senators as opposed to prior to that we had three state senators. For that we thank you then. The two state senators we had been given was basically Carl Kruger covering most our area and senator Sampson covering three or four blocks. Both men enjoy very good reputation in the area of south Brooklyn and serve their constituents very well. It occurred to me just by looking at the shapes of the districts that this proposes to give us, districts shaped like snakes and dumbbells as opposed to contiguous areas with common areas. Most speakers have addressed issues which I wholeheartedly agree. I know you can go back to the table and come up with a better plan. You have heard the objections. It hasn't come from one part of the community. It's borough wide. I urge you to do that and give us a modified district that we can all appreciate. SENATOR SKELOS: If we can have a motion to adjourn at this time. The meeting is adjourned. Thank you very much for being here. (Whereupon at 4:47 P.M. the New York State Legislative Task Force on Demographic Research and Reapportionment was adjourned.) C E R T I F I C A T I O N I, FRANK GRAY, a Notary Public in and for the State of New York, do hereby state: THAT I attended at the time and place above-mentioned and took stenographic record of the proceedings in the above-mentioned matter; THAT the foregoing is a true and correct transcript of the same and the whole thereof, according to the best of my ability and belief. IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand this day of March, 2002. _______________________ FRANK GRAY 1 Demographic Research & Reapportionment - 3/8/02 EN-DE REPORTING, INC. (212) 962-2961 |