LEGISLATIVE TASK FORCE ON DEMOGRAPHIC RESEARCH AND REAPPORTIONMENT QUEENS HEARING REAPPORTIONMENT 2000 21st Floor 250 Broadway New York, New York Friday, June 1, 2001 10:00 a.m.

EN-DE REPORTING SERVICES, LTD. 200 Old Country Road Mineola, NY 11501 (212) 962-2915 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: TASK FORCE MEMBERS: SENATOR DEAN G. SKELOS, Co-Chairman ASSEMBLYMAN WILLIAM L. PARMENT, Co-Chairman SENATOR RICHARD A. DOLLINGER ASSEMBLYMAN CHRIS ORTLOFF VINCENT P. BRUY, Member ROMAN B. HEDGES, Member DEBRA A. LEVINE, Co-Executive Director LEWIS M. HOPPE, Co-Executive Director LIST OF SPEAKERS PAGE Senator Toby Ann Stavisky 11 Inderjit Singh Executive Chair South Asian Community Council 13 Alexandra Rosa Chief of Staff on behalf of Hon. Claire Shulman, Queens Borough President 16 Lew Harris Executive Director Forest Hills Community House 20 Mike Fuller Team 31 speaking on behalf of William T. Smith former NYS Senator, SD 51 28 Sayu Bhojwani South Asian Youth Action 30 Pat Babor 35 Lynn Schulman Member Community Board No. 6 37 Roop Persaud City Planning Consultant Human Services Organization of Queens 39 Robert Holden Juniper Park Civic Association 44 George Malandrakis 58 Sarah Belleas 64 Mary Marangos 66 LIST OF SPEAKERS [CONT'D.] PAGE Parag Khandhar Asian American Federation 73 Gary Girdhari Editor Guyana Journal Magazine 93 Dr. Gail Mellow President LaGuardia Community College 100 Tara Singh Guyana Youth Corp New Concept Democratic Club read by Gary Girdhari 106 Connie Savvides on behalf of Dr. Florentia Christodoulidou 115 Alice Cardona Queens Hispanic Political Action Committee 116 Thomas Dennehy 121 Senator Malcolm Smith 123 Norman Chan 138 Dr. Taj Rajkumar Candidate for the Assembly 142 Nydia Martinez President Marine Terrace & Central Astoria Tenants Association 147 Alan Friedman Director Hall of Science 149 LIST OF SPEAKERS [CONT'D.] PAGE Sungkyu Yun Executive Director National Korean American Service & Educational Consortium 154 Gyanda Shirvnarain Public Relations Officer National Hindu Temple Association 160 Aida Gonzalez-Jerrin Candidate for City Council Queens Hispanic Political Action Committee Queens Hispanic Coalition 165 Genero Herrera President LaGran de Alianza de Queens 170 Lorinda Chen President NY Chinese-American Association 176 Ethel Chen Asian American Women's Association 181 James Wu Asian American Democratic Association 185 Regina Robinson Executive Director Emerald Isle Immigration Center on behalf of AnneMarie Scanlon 192 Ruth Zinar Common Cause 194 Vishnu Mahadeo General Secretary East Indian Diaspora read by Pritha Singh 202 LIST OF SPEAKERS [CONT'D.] PAGE Rudy Sarchese President Astoria-Ditmars Homeowner and Tenant Civic Association 208 Trevor Rupnarain Candidate City Council 28th District 211 Ken Cohen President NAACP Flushing 213 Dennis Syntilas Community Board No. 1 214 Maria Toliou 215

SENATOR SKELOS: Good morning. Welcome to the Legislative Task Force on Demographic Research and Reapportionment's fifth of 11 public hearings throughout the State of New York. I am State Senator Dean Skelos, Co-Chair of the Task Force. With me are fellow Task Force members, our Co-Chair, Assemblyman William Parment, Senator Richard Dollinger, Assemblyman Chris Ortloff, Vincent Bruy, and Roman Hedges. The purpose of all of these hearings is to obtain input from the general public on the wide range of issues impacting our State's process in drawing Congressional State Senate and State Assembly District boundaries. Obviously, in doing so, we must meet requirements of the Federal, State laws, court decisions, Voting Rights Act. Numerous factors go into drawing the districts throughout the State. But, again, what's important about these hearings is that we get your input about your communities, how you would like to see district lines drawn, and I would urge that it not be focused on incumbency as against what you feel your community of interests are, concerns about voting rights, on and on and on. Also, I would ask, since we have 40 witnesses today and the witnesses will be called in order of their contacting the Task Force, I would ask that you please keep your comments to five minutes or less. If you would like to submit testimony certainly we would take it and it would be part of the record. But I would ask that you keep your testimony to five minutes. ASSEMBLYMAN PARMENT: Assemblyman Bill Parment, Co-Chair of the Task Force. I would just add that this task force is created by act of the State Legislature, and is specifically designated to make recommendations to the Legislature for the district boundaries for the congressional delegation, the State Senate and the State Assembly. It is a bipartisan commission, with both the Republican and Democratic members being evenly divided, and it's comprised of four of us who are elected officials and two are non-elected officials. I welcome you to the hearing. SENATOR SKELOS: Richard? SENATOR DOLLINGER: Just briefly, Mr. Chair. To add to what Assemblyman Parment said, this is one of a series of statewide hearings to analyze issues affecting communities of interest and communities that would be affected by reapportionment, and we have a number coming out throughout the rest of the State. The last thing I would like to do is just recognize one of my colleagues sitting in the auditorium today and that's Senator Toby Ann Stavisky. Welcome, Senator. SENATOR SKELOS: Chris? ASSEMBLYMAN ORTLOFF: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As we begin this hearing and continue the process, I'd like to point out just a couple of things that I think most of us already know, but which sometimes get lost in the rhetoric and the passion of these issues. The first is that the Task Force is not functioning in a vacuum with a blank slate. The world already exists, legislative lines already exist, communities already exist. We are not, despite the opinions sometimes expressed in the media and by some advocacy groups, we do not really have the power to do anything we want, and we begin with the world as it is. In many cases, the world as it is, the districts as they are, function very well. They represent communities. People who live in those communities find it convenient and effective to elect representatives to State and Federal office. And when they want those lines to stay the same they are reflecting not the interests of an incumbent, perhaps, although that's what it's usually expressed as, but the interest of their communities. In other cases communities exist that have been divided. So when we approach this, I would second Chairman Skelos's admonition. We would very much appreciate hearing what communities and interest groups feel rather than what incumbent members of Congress and the Legislature feel. This is a function every 10 years for the benefit of the people, so that the people in each community may have, to the best of their ability, an effective way to elect representatives of their choice to work their will in our representative republic. And so, please help us by addressing your remarks to the interests of your community and your people. And while we certainly respect and recognize the accomplishments of individual incumbent members, that is not what we are here today to hear about, and it will certainly aid our process if we talk about the communities. Thank you. SENATOR SKELOS: Our first speaker is Bishop Nerbada Persaud. You're going to have to help me with the names -- P-e-r-s-a-u-d -- President and Director, United Federation of Hindus. Dr. Taj Rajkumar, candidate for the Assembly. Inderjit Singh, Executive Chair, South Asian Community Council. Chris Strunk? Nydia Martinez, President of the Marine Terrace and Central Astoria Tenants Association? Robert Curran? Senator Toby Ann Stavisky. SENATOR STAVISKY: Yes. We are the home of not only great corn beef sandwiches, but great ethnic food, and that is really in a sense what I'm going to speak on today, and that's the cultural diversity that is Queens County. I appear before you as the Senator representing 362,931 people, the largest Senate District in the State of New York, and I can only guess what the numbers would be if every person were actually counted. This explosive population growth in the 16th Senate District is replicated throughout Queens County, and it must be matched with an increase in Queens County's representation in the Assembly and in the State Senate, as well as in Congress. The 363,000 individuals reflect the diversity that makes Queens County so unique. Approximately one-half of my constituents -- 190,000 -- speak Spanish, and one-quarter are of Asian ancestry. The needs of these new Americans must be met in terms of education, housing, health, and human services, as well as representation in the Legislature. The legislative districts must be compact, contiguous, and concise, and reflect the community characteristics embodied in local neighborhoods, something that I very strongly believe was lacking in the 1990 census. For example, in Queens County to affix Bayside in the eastern part of Queens County, to Astoria in the extreme western part of Queens County, with the connection being the East River, to me was outrageous, and I sincerely hope that redistricting will not mirror what we are going through with the budget process of "three men in a room." To paraphrase Woodrow Wilson, what we need with redistricting is open covenants openly arrived at, and I thank all of the members of the Commission for appearing here today and for your courtesy. Thank you. SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you. Questions? Now, the gentleman came in, I had called his name, would you come up forward, please? Welcome. MR. SINGH: Inderjit Singh. I am the Executive Chair of the South Asian Community Council. Thank you for letting me testify before this panel. The issue that we are speaking on is a matter of life and death for our communities in the sense that without culturally-cohesive communities our communities, which are part of the political boundaries and formation of districts, our communities may not survive for the simple reason that most of our people have established temples, churches, markets, and communities, so that it makes it easier for them to go on with their day-to-day life. In addition, the communities require ethnically-sensitive public facilities, whether these be senior centers, whether these be hospitals. I quickly want to give you an example. An elderly lady could not describe her symptoms to her normal, average physician until somebody who was sensitive to her language was brought in and she was able to explain what her problem was. So, for her it was a matter of physical survival to have access to those facilities. And I would ask that communities like Richmond Hill, South Ozone Park, where we have probably the largest concentration of South Asian population, be maintained, and in spite of the size of the community we do not have any representation both in the halls of Assembly and in the State Senate. And if these communities continue to be bifurcated and divided we will never have that critical mass that we need, and to be able, even to good-hearted, good-meaning, and God-serving public servants, the sensitivity to some of these issues is very hard to come by, and, therefore, I would like to make this appeal to this august body that please be sensitive to the needs of communities like mine, and make sure that even though we are a very large proportion of some of the districts in which we live, we are practically transparent people. People look through us, we are not noticed, and our needs are not paid attention to. And in the tradition of the American political system, where I suppose I can go back to Mr. Jefferson, when he founded the democratic party, with a small "d," he had said let the people rule, and I think that has been the motto throughout the history, whether we have had Republicans, with a big "R" or Democrats, with a big "D" in power. I think you would be doing your heritage and my future a great favor by keeping these things in mind so that our communities are very proud to be here. We want to maintain our traditions, ad we are privileged that the United States of America provides this climate, and I again go back to the words of the first Asian non-caucasian who was elected to the United States Senate in the year 1952, that was Lee Sin Soun from California. He was elected from a community which had been abused over decades, if not longer, and his election to the United States Congress was not only a credit to this country -- President Kennedy and the United States Congress paraded him all over the world as a symbol of democracy at work, and I am sure New York State can set a similar, if not a better, example, because now are there more people involved. Thank you very much. SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you, sir. Any questions? Thank you very much, sir. Normally we have the Chief Executive Officer in the community where we're attending these hearings speak to welcome us, so I'd like to ask Alexandra Rosa, Chief of Staff, speaking on behalf of Claire Shulman. MS. ROSA: Good morning, Senator Skelos, Assembly Member Parment, and members of the Committee, my name is Alexandra Rosa, Chief of Staff to Queens Borough President Claire Shulman, who welcomes you to Borough Hall this morning, and asks that I submit this testimony on her behalf. The 2000 census figures are in and they tell us a remarkable story. The population in Queens has grown by more than 14 percent, to more than 2.2 million people. We are the second most populous county in the entire State of New York. These 2.2 million individuals live in dozens of communities. We are a borough of neighborhoods. We not only identify ourselves by our borough but, also, by the individual cultures and traditions that come from our neighborhoods. We are the only borough that uses the names of its communities when we identify ourselves. In fact, if you address an envelope you write Bronx, New York, Brooklyn, New York, and Queens, Glendale, Bayside, Little Neck, Forest Hills, Jamaica. We are clearly identified with our neighborhoods, and there is a very strong sense of community identification and pride. This causes, however, great problems when an individual member does not represent individual neighborhoods. Queens as a whole is also distinct from the rest of the City. We have the most overcrowded schools in the City of New York. More than 28,000 students are forced to attend class in converted locker rooms, bathrooms, and hallways. We simply have no classroom space for them. Although we are on a track of building schools, we need to rely on our congressional members to fight on our behalf. Infrastructure needs and quality medical care are also major issues for our always-increasing population. While we embrace the arrival of new generations of immigrants, Federal support must be provided to help meet their needs. We currently have a 2 percent vacancy rate and desperately need affordable housing. We are the only borough with two major airports that serve the rest of the City, not to mention the tri-state area. Indeed, JFK is the new gateway to America. We also generate electricity for 48 percent of the City of New York. Protecting our neighborhoods and fighting for our needs requires cohesive representation. That is why I mentioned those substantive issues. On the State level, the importance of wholly-contained districts inside each borough was obviously taken into account. No Assembly member has more than one borough in their district. Because of our increased population, however, an additional seat should be added. That becomes an obvious conclusion when one looks at the census. The Federal issue of having congressional members representing more than our Borough of Queens is particularly troublesome. Queens now has seven congressional members representing the Borough, only one of whom is entirely encompassed within the Borough. We have the most diverse population in the United States of America. Despite that our Congress members must somehow fight with one voice on the Federal level for the needs of all the constituents. The problem becomes evident when you look at some of our neighborhoods, like Maspeth or Corona, where two or three Congressional members represent each area. How much easier it would be and more effective for the people of those communities it would be for each neighborhood to speak with a single voice. According to the new census Queens should have 3.25 congressional seats. Because Queens has strong neighborhood identification and unique needs, every effort should be made to ensure that representation of those areas is based on compact and contiguous lines. Every effort also should be made to have those congressional members who live in Queens and have represented its citizens for many years, to continue to represent Queens. Given the new census figures, the traditional losing one upstate and one downstate seat is on longer valid. New York City's population has grown by more than 9 percent. Indeed, the greatest growth in New York State over the past 10 years has been in New York City and Queens. Clearly, the representation for New York City should not be lost. We now have the opportunity to make sense out of the district lines that blur our neighborhoods. We hope that you will use it to increase the effectiveness of government in the community. Thank you. SENATOR SKELOS: Questions? Thank you very much. Alan Friedman, Director, Hall of Science. Is Alan here? Lew Harris, Executive Director, Forest Hills Community House. Welcome. MR. HARRIS: Good morning. I am Lew Harris. I'm the Executive Director of the Forest Hills Community House, and I really am pleased to have the right and the honor to address you this morning. I also want to discuss my working relationship with Congressman Nita Lowey, a valued member of the New York delegation. As you've just heard, Queens is a borough with very diverse communities and many challenges. We need leaders in Congress who can think creatively about health care, education, and social services, and can work with the strength of diverse communities in a unifying way, and Congressman Nita Lowey demonstrates those strengths. Forest Hills Community House is a community-based settlement house founded in 1975 to assist, strengthen, and help promote the quality of life of individuals, families, and communities. Today our 38 programs reach over 15,000 people throughout Queens. Our 16 sites serve as centers for community gathering, organizing, and social service activity. Our programs work to promote intergenerational and cross-cultural cooperation and exchange. Representative Lowey is a familiar face to those community residents who utilize the services of the Forest Hills Community House. During the year you can find her installing offices at one of our senior centers, or leading a discussion on Federal issues, as they pertain to our community in areas of social reform, immigration, health, and education. The Congresswoman has assisted the Community House by opening the door to Federal funding. Starting in 1995, with Representative Lowey's assistance, we were selected as a national demonstration project, one of only 12 in the nation, by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services' Center for Substance Abuse Prevention -- C-SAP -- in their high-risk youth, female adolescents' category. We received a million dollars over three years to work with young women ages 12 through 18 through a multi-dimensional leadership program called Access For Young Women. The program offered a variety of supervised activities, including athletics, leadership groups, health issues, discussions, self-defense, life skills training, and community service based on a substance abuse prevention model. In 1998, when C-SAP changed its priorities and was no longer funding local community-based organizations, Congresswoman Lowey assisted the Community House in securing a four-year grant from the U.S. Department of Education Women's Educational Equity Act -- WEEA -- to enhance the Access For Young Women's program by developing a specific gender equity leadership curriculum for young women. It was the Congresswoman herself who was responsible for securing some of the first funds for the WEEA program. We're currently in the third year of a four-year grant of $4.5 million. When we were first seeking funding for this category the request for applications was closed due to the limited funding in the 1998 fiscal year. It was Nita Lowey's skilled Washington staff that assisted the Department of Education in reopening the call for applications. In June -- now -- of 2001 the Forest Hills Community House, in collaboration with Community School District 28, will open its 21st Century Community Learning Center's Program. The program will provide a continuum of services for over 1,000 children ages 4 to 18, and 350 adult family members living in Central Queens. With the assistance of Congresswoman Lowey, Community Learning Centers will be provided, an early childhood center, two elementary schools, a middle school and a high school. The District 28 community will receive a total of $4,425,000 over the next three years to provide a safe, drug-free afterschool environment for youngsters. Through the program activities will be provided that offer significant expanding learning opportunities for children and youth in the community, and contribute to reduce drug use and violence. In addition, we will assist students to meet or exceed State and local standards in core academic subjects, and address issues that we feel are at the core of many students' academic and social struggles -- English proficiency and access to health care information and services. Recently, the Congresswoman became a member of the House Democratic Leadership, giving her a greater opportunity to work for Queens. Nita Lowey's years of experience, her demonstrated willingness to fight for Queens and her ability to get the job done makes her an invaluable asset to the Forest Hills Community House, our community, and the Borough of Queens. I appeal to the Task Force to seriously consider the importance of preserving our communities' relationship with Congresswoman Nita Lowey, and I thank you for hearing my thoughts and the opportunity to present testimony today. Thank you very much SENATOR SKELOS: Any questions? What I'd like to -- SENATOR DOLLINGER: I just have one. SENATOR SKELOS: I'm sorry, sir. Mr. Harris, could you come back? SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. Harris, could you come back just for one second. I don't mean to preempt Senator Skelos here. One of the issues that we've explored is the concept of taking communities that are within a city and combining it with the suburbs. This is an issue that we face both in Senate Districts in some areas, certainly in the Congressional Districts in a number of areas, and your comments about Congresswoman Lowey, aren't they really a demonstration that almost regardless of where the person lives, whether they live on the city side or the suburban side of these districts, that they can, without even focusing on Congresswoman Lowey, but really it's the quality of the representative you get. I mean, that's really the nature of your comments, to talk about the quality of the representative. MR. HARRIS: That's correct. SENATOR DOLLINGER: I think oftentimes we hear this, and I don't mean to preempt Senator Skelos, but the real question we're trying to deal with is not the quality of the representative but the relationship between the communities that they represent. What our job is to take the demographic information, the statutory information, the constitutional restraints that we have, and try to figure out how to put these communities together. But I understand your testimony to say that it's not so much where you live, it's the quality of the representative, and a good representative can represent an urban community with urban problems, and a suburban community, such as Representative Lowey represents in Westchester County. MR. HARRIS: And it comes back to the responsibility of the voter to make certain that the representatives are quality and they have good staff and that they can represent the communities in which they're elected. SENATOR DOLLINGER: Again, just so you understand, our focus is really on geography and demography on the need as, I think everybody in this room knows, there will be two fewer congressional seats in New York State. We have no choice about that. And, so, two of the 31 members, all of whom may be hardworking, all of whom may be doing wonderful things for their communities -- in fact, you could actually interpret their reelection as evidence that they are doing just that -- two of them will be gone. MR. HARRIS: I understand that, and I'm just making a voice for a mix that you're considering at this point, and I think the quality of representation is the quality of the vote. SENATOR DOLLINGER: Right, but we leave that to the voters. MR. HARRIS: That's correct. SENATOR DOLLINGER: Our job is to fashion something based on communities and demography and population, and a number of other factors, legal and constitutional. That's really our obligation. Our obligation is not to guarantee anybody's going to be elected. Our job is to try to figure out which communities will be best served by being in a single district, be it a Congressional District, Assembly District, or State Senate District. MR. HARRIS: I understand that. We do have quality representation, so we can banter as to whether it's the quality of the elected official or whether it's the demographics of the Congressional Districts. SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you. SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you, sir. Any other questions? Vishnu Mahadeo, M-a-h-a-d-e-o? Ruth Zinar, Z-i-n-a-r? Mike Fuller? Mike, welcome. MR. FULLER: Good morning. It's great to be here, and I just want to thank you guys for the chance to read a letter on behalf of someone from the southern tier and Fingerlakes Region, William Smith. He wanted me to read this letter on his behalf, and he's sorry he couldn't be here today, and if the Committee has any questions I'd be glad to take the questions back to Mr. Smith and he will get in contact with you guys to answer any questions that you have. And just on a personal note I'd like to thank the Committee for always welcoming us from the southern tier and Fingerlakes Region. I'll read the letter: Dear Committee Members: Thank you for the opportunity to address an issue that will claim a large part of your time in the months to come, and thank you for your service. My name is Bill Smith, and I farmed a piece of rich Chemung River bottom land in Chemung County at Big Flats all my life. My ancestors established a farm in 1876. It is the only farm left in Big Flats, but this remains a rural area and I firmly believe it must stay in a prominently rural congressional district. Country people have concerns unlike those of larger metropolitan areas. I speak from a background in State government. For 24 years I represented New York's 51st -- now 52nd -- Senatorial District. It was my privilege to serve and help solve a myriad of problems among my constituents. In some cases I felt the need to contact my congressional representative to help me address those concerns. That was never a problem. My representative and his staff worked hard to meet the needs of my constituents. This is why we need to maintain the country flavor that has been the nature of this congressional district since before my ancestor came to this valley from New England in 1876. We should not be cut up and parceled out to large cities near the borders of our district. Such a division would diminish our voice in government, reduce the effectiveness of problem solving for our people, and we would lose that unique bond we've enjoyed since congressional districts were formed. Sincerely, William T. Smith. SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you very much. Any questions? Thank you. MR. FULLER: Thank you. SENATOR SKELOS: Sayu B-h-o-j-w-a-n-i. MS. BHOJWANI: I'll give you a hand. SENATOR SKELOS: Okay. Thank you. MS. BHOJWANI: Good morning. Thank you for the opportunity to share with you the concerns of our communities. I'm Sayu Bhojwani, Executive Director of South Asian Youth Action. Our agency offers a wide range of support services to over 300 young people whose families come from Bangladesh, Guyana, India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka and Trinidad. We provide academic support, leadership development, job training, and a safe space for young people to gather and voice their concerns. Our organization operates programs in five schools in Queens and in Manhattan, and runs a drop-in center in Elmhurst, which, as you may know, is one of the most ethnically-diverse communities, not only in New York but in the entire United States. The interaction among communities who have different cultural histories and religious backgrounds, but who share the common history of migration with its resultant challenges, is a hallmark of Elmhurst. Multilingual services in public institutions such as the Elmhurst Library, converge with the availability of familiar food products in local supermarkets. Asian families worship together in churches, such as the First Presbyterian Church of Newtown, in which SAYA is housed. Their children attend schools such as Newtown, where students speak over 50 different languages. While our agency's target population is ethnic-specific, our work in the past five years has indicated that immigrant teens in Elmhurst share similar concerns about police-youth relations, teacher quality, and the availability of public spaces. Immigrant parents, in turn, are concerned about education and afterschool programs, access to English language classes, assistance with immigration issues, and other appropriate social services for their families. Young people, in particular, are poised to take political action in Elmhurst and, more generally, in Queens. At SAYA we have engaged young people in voter education and registration, registering hundreds of voters from the South Asian community last summer. In addition, young people are ready to be part of the solution to problems, such as teacher quality. Recent surveys conducted by our members at Newtown High School have identified problems within the school that our organization will address with the principle. Civic responsibility and political participation in the United States are important to these young people and their families. As new immigrant communities begin to mobilize politically they need critical support. The ability for immigrant groups to sit together with elected officials to discuss common concerns would be greatly enhanced through a redistricting process that unites the Asian communities of Elmhurst. A fundamentally important feature of our communities like it success in providing a space for diverse communities to gain their foothold in New York is threatened by its division into multiple districts. I am not asking for any specific sort of recommendations, but I just wanted to put out to you the kinds of concerns that are important to our organization and to the communities that we work with. Thank you. SENATOR SKELOS: Are there any questions? ASSEMBLYMAN PARENT: Could you expand on the idea of the community that you speak of. Is in your mind that community spread over a greater area than just Elmhurst? MS. BHOJWANI: I'd say Elmhurst, Corona and Jackson Heights. ASSEMBLYMAN PARMENT: And that has become an area of Asian population? MS. BHOJWANI: Asian and other immigrant communities. ASSEMBLYMAN PARMENT: And is that somewhat cohesive in cultural and political organization? MS. BHOJWANI: I would say that the cohesiveness comes out of common concerns around certain issues like education, access to social services in specific languages, not necessarily that the cultures are similar, but that they share the kinds of challenges that immigrants from very, very different countries share when they come to New York or to this neighborhood. ASSEMBLYMAN PARMENT: Basically from different countries but the same continent. MS. BHOJWANI: Well, I'm speaking about Asian communities, but I think that you could -- in terms of Latin American and, also, Caribbean countries, who people from those countries also live in the neighborhoods of Elmhurst, Corona and Jackson Heights. And I think that while there isn't a common culture there are a common set of concerns that can be effectively addressed through giving that community a joint political voice. SENATOR DOLLINGER: I just want to follow up Assemblyman Parment's question. Do you have any evidence that they have voted cohesively? MS. BHOJWANI: I don't actually have that evidence, but I'm sure that that's something that we could try to provide for you. SENATOR DOLLINGER: If you could, and I'd be interested in seeing evidence about whether they vote cohesively, or whether a candidate from that community has been voted against in a cohesive fashion. In other words, the flip side. One is does a particular candidate draw votes because of ethnic or cultural identification, and the other question is whether they draw votes away from them because of that cultural identification. If you do, if you could submit that to the Task Force, it might be helpful, especially with respect to Elmhurst, Corona and Jackson Heights. MS. BHOJWANI: Thank you. SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you. Rudy Sarchese? Youngjae Kim? Pat Babor? Is Pat here? MS. BABOR: Good morning. My name is Patricia Babor and I'm a lifelong resident of Astoria. I'm an officer of the Taminent Democratic Club and a board member of Sharing and Caring, which is the largest breast and ovarian outreach organization in New York State. I'm here as a private citizen, though. Astoria has a long history of connection with the East Side of Manhattan, founded in 1839. Astoria grew and prospered because of its easy access to Manhattan, first by ferry and later on bridges and tunnels that continue to link the East Side of Manhattan with Queens. Astoria residents requiring treatment at a hospital often receive care either at Mt. Sinai Hospital of Queens or at one of its hospitals on the East Side of Manhattan. Mt. Sinai Hospital is part of the Mt. Sinai-New York University Medical Center and Health System. Both Mt. Sinai and NYU Medical Center are located in the 14th Congressional District. New York City is the leader in medical care in the United States and most of the leading hospitals in New York City are located in the 14th Congressional District. I believe that it is helpful to residents of Western Queens to have a member of a congressional district who is so familiar with the issues that affect our hospital and the people who seek their treatment. Roosevelt Island is a perfect symbol of the links between the East Side of Manhattan and Western Queens. Its zip code is in Manhattan and its political representation is Manhattan, but it receives its fire, police, and sanitation services from Western Queens. The Asian longhorn beetle, a voracious, ferocious insect that kills trees, was first spotted in the 14th Congressional District in 1996. The beetle is thought to have come over from China in packing crates. Unknown in the United States before 1996, it has no known predators. Trees that are infested must be destroyed. Since it was first identified, it has been found on the East Side of Manhattan and Western Queens, as well as other areas of Queens, Long Island and Chicago. Over 4,000 trees have been destroyed by the beetle. If the beetle spreads it could deforest New York State. Because the beetle happens to have been found in so many areas of her district, Congresswoman Maloney has developed an expertise on this issue and has been a strong advocate for Federal funds to combat the beetle. She was able to bring the Agricultural Secretary to her district to demonstrate the severity of the problem. I thank you very much. SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you very much, ma'am. Lynn Schulman, Member of Community Board 6. MS. SCHULMAN: Good morning to everyone and welcome to the great Borough of Queens. I am Lynn Schulman and I am appearing before you today as a private citizen, but I am a member of Community Board 6, a member of the Forest Hills Civic Association, and a concerned member of the Forest Hills community. The Forest Hills community represents diverse populations that share a unique character that should not be divided by redistricting. The Legislative districts we have now are well-represented by legislators who know the community and its varied needs. My concern and the concern of others in Forest Hills is that Forest Hills not be divided in such a way as to destroy the unique character and cohesiveness that we now enjoy. Thank you. SENATOR DOLLINGER: Just for my information, can you give me the geographic limits of Forest Hills, how you define its boundaries. MS. SCHULMAN: How I define Forest Hills? Let's see, it goes from Metropolitan Avenue down to the Grand Central Parkway and over down to around little before -- I'm doing this now off of memory -- 63rd Drive goes all the way down near to Union Turnpike. That's just a general, off the top of my head, description. SENATOR DOLLINGER: Close enough. Thanks. SENATOR SKELOS: Trevor Rupnarain? Sungkyu Yun? Councilmember John D. Sabini? Gyanda Shirvarain? Aida Gonzalez-Jarrin? Gus Prentzas? Roop Persaud? Welcome, sir. MR. PERSAUD: Good morning, members of the Task Force and other fellow Americans. I appear before you this morning to speak on behalf of the residents of Richmond Hill, South Ozone Park, Ozone Park and Woodhaven. By training and profession I am a city planner. We need to remind ourselves that taxation without representation is unAmerican. The American Revolution commenced with the famous Boston Tea Party incident. The early settlers felt that they were denied any say in the governance of this new nation. The residents of Richmond Hill, Ozone Park and South Ozone Park communities are hardworking taxpayers, like the rest of us. They pay all the taxes -- income tax, city and state taxes, real estate tax, et cetera. Over 1,000 houses have been bought and sold in these two- and three-jobs neighborhoods over the past decade, yielding to the State over half a billion dollars. Yet, if we compare the number and quality of State and City services available to these communities, we are sure to find that these services are lacking, if not being denied. Let us see for a moment what these communities see from their eyes that they're getting for their tax dollars. Having been there for the past 10 years mixing with and among them, what they see is police harassment, and a state of tension, which is very unhealthy. They see Department of Housing harassment, the basement issue. Why are these communities being singled out and targeted, when basements are being rented all over the City? They see a two-inch, small park, Smokey Park, for over 1,000 residents, flimsy excuses for a very low standard of education. These communities, I have taught some of them. The name you called just now, Mr. Rupnarain, is a student of mine. He has become a lawyer. I know the quality in education. We can provide a better education than they're getting. No help for minority and small business owners, no health care for mothers and children. Let's look at Bronx County. Bronx County pays from its county funds for health care for mothers and children. Harassment of the business community by ticketing their small, little businesses for an "A" sign. I have seen many businesses show me their tickets for a little "A" sign, and you walk right around here, you can see the "A" sign in many other communities. This, of course, prompts the question why? We must ask why? Why are these communities being targeted and harassed? Why are they being subjected to this unAmerican, undemocratic and discriminatory practices? The answer actually is rather simple. Lack of political representation, because of the present boundaries of the electoral districts. They have no representation in Albany nor in City Hall. I refer to other speakers who have mentioned the numbers of residents in these communities from the new census count. It is imminent that the demarcation lines of the voting districts be examined and that the Task Force make it its first priority of business, please, to afford to these disenfranchised communities their constitutional inheritance to have a voice and say in their governance. Government by all the people at least we must have, since it is difficult to get government for all the people. I thank you very much for listening to me for and on behalf of these currently disenfranchised communities and trust that you will do the right thing by them and for them. Thank you. SENATOR SKELOS: Questions? SENATOR DOLLINGER: Could you tell me what you estimate the population of Richmond Hill, South Ozone Park and Ozone Park to be? MR. PERSAUD: They are about 100,000-125,000. SENATOR DOLLINGER: Just so you understand it, while that's not far off from the size of an Assembly District it's only about a third the size of a State Senate District, and it's only about a fifth the size -- a little bit smaller than a fifth -- the size of a Congressional District. So at least with respect to those larger districts, the Senate and the Congressional Districts, it's not a situation where we can create a Congressional District that has nothing but that population in it. One of the things we have to do is try to figure out how that community is linked with other communities that would create a community of interest and that would then be encompassed within a congressional seat or a Senate seat. I just want to make sure you understand that, that with respect to the bigger population districts, they're clearly going to be combined with other similar populations. They may be culturally similar, they may be ethnically similar, they may be geographically. They'll clearly be as contiguous as we can make them, but there's a need to build alliances in politics, as well, and it seems to me that you have to face that vis-a-vis certainly congressional seats and senate seats, which are two of the three prongs that we're interested in here. MR. PERSAUD: Responding to that, primarily at this time I am more concerned with the State Assembly seat, the representation in New York State. I listened to the other speakers, and I was very pleased to hear them recount and annotate the services that they are receiving in their districts. That's wonderful. So far have we heard from anyone in these communities that they are receiving any services? No, we haven't. And that is my interest, at least at the State level, that they have a voice, and the City level. I appreciate your comment on the congressional level. That I am aware of the difficulty on. SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you. ASSEMBLYMAN ORTLOFF: I wonder if you could be anymore precise about the boundaries, or perhaps you've already looked at what might be your ideal Assembly District. Could you be more precise about what you think we ought to examine? MR. PERSAUD: Yes, but I would rather submit that, because right now if I use the word gerrymandering it cuts off several pieces and it's so difficult to remember, so I will have to map it out and present my suggestion. I'll be happy to do that, Assemblyman. ASSEMBLYMAN ORTLOFF: I'd be very delighted for you to go through that exercise, and I assure you the Task Force will take it very seriously. MR. PERSAUD: Thank you so much. SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you, sir. Any other questions? Genaro Herrera? Lorinda Chen? Ethel Chen? James Wu? Robert Holden? George Malandrakis? Are you Robert Holden? MR. HOLDEN: Yes. SENATOR SKELOS: Oh, Robert, sure. I'm sorry. I didn't see you. You'll be next. MR. HOLDEN: My name is Robert Holden. I'm President of the Juniper Park Civic Association and Vice-Chairman of Community Board 5. Our civic association represents 1,600 families in Maspeth, Middle Village and Elmhurst. In the redistricting plan I strongly believe that every effort should be made to keep Queens' neighborhoods intact. During the redistricting process following the 1990 census Queens County was divided into several congressional districts. As a result only one congressional district lies entirely in Queens County. It's a problem. In Maspeth three members -- I mean, I live on the Maspeth border -- we have three members of Congress representing Maspeth -- Crowley, Weiner and Valesquez. This is unfair and confusing, obviously. You live on one side of the street you have Valesquez and on the other side the neighbors have Weiner, and so forth and so on. In Middle Village we have two, we have Congressman Crowley and Weiner. To visit Congressman Weiner's office we have to go down to Sheepshead Bay and we live in Queens -- we live in Western Queens. So, that is obviously not the person that should be representing us. Even though we like him, to get down there is a chore. Many residents -- in fact, most of my civic association, if you talk to anybody -- they don't know who represents them because it's so confusing, the configuration of these districts. Why not use natural boundaries? I mean, if you live on one side of the expressway you have another congressman, and obviously if you live on the other, these are natural boundaries. That's a little better than small residential streets being the boundaries. These kind of districts that are currently in place does not promote continuity in carrying out our goals as civic leaders and residents. It is counterproductive when planning Federal funding initiatives. As seats are withdrawn it is imperative that neighborhood boundaries -- and I have to emphasize this -- stay together. Again, to have Maspeth divided into three is totally ridiculous, and that whole thing should be investigated, what happened there. We take pride in our neighborhoods. By the way, if many of you don't know, Queens neighborhoods are the backbone of the City, that's what we feel. We identify with the small town within the large city. That's why, if you look, we're unique. In Queens we identify ourselves by the town that we live in, unlike Brooklyn and other areas -- of course, Manhattan. I live in Middle Village, Queens. You know, that's what we say, we live in Middle Village, or we live in Maspeth, or we live in Elmhurst, or we live in Richmond Hill. That's how we identify. That's why these neighborhoods have to be kept intact within the congressional and the assembly districts. And, you know, another thing is newspaper articles suggest that New York State may lose one seat in New York City and one upstate. Carrying this plan out would be very irresponsible. The population of Queens County -- especially New York City, I'm talking about -- the population of Queens County grew by 14 percent from 1990 to 2000. Queens should not lose any congressional seats. New York City's population grew by 9.4 percent, over eight million people. How could New York City lose a congressional seat? That's got to be looked at. Currently, Queens is home to well over two million people, New York's second largest county. Census data shows that the greatest growth, again, in New York State over 10 years has been in New York City, so why should New York City stand to lose a seat? Additionally, new seats should be as compact as possible in the City to ensure the representation that I spoke about before, and that is a given. That's obvious. Again, my civic association, we have three Assembly seats. I have to talk to three Assembly people. It's a nightmare. We have more elected officials than -- you know, people don't know who represents them. You have to almost juggle. And even talking -- you know, you can get sent around to three different elected officials in my district, because one person will call, they don't know who the person is who represents them. I'm a civic leader. I've been involved in civics since 1985, I'm Vice-Chairman of the Community Board, I run a baseball program, I run a police program, Cop 104. I don't know the district of congressionals and the Assembly. You have to walk around with a map. It is so confusing. Please, let's make intact communities. Think about the names in Queens County, the names of the towns, and give them representation, one Assembly person and one congressman, and so forth. Thank you very much. ASSEMBLYMAN PARMENT: Could I ask a question? To some extent your testimony causes me to wonder what the priority would be? On the one hand you're indicating that you'd like to see fewer divisions of Queens in regard to congressional seats. On the other you're indicating you don't think Queens should lose any members of Congress. MR. HOLDEN: Well, why should a congressman go up to the Bronx, you know, across the river, go up to the Bronx, and then we're divided all over the place, or go into Manhattan or go into Brooklyn. We have representation now from Anthony Weiner. He snakes down into Brooklyn to the -- I'm not even talking about the northern part of Brooklyn, the southern. He goes in a line right across Brooklyn. ASSEMBLYMAN PARMENT: I guess the question is how do you not lose members of the Congress and not subdivide Queens? MR. HOLDEN: It's obvious. If Queens had solid seats, so that means the congressmen are only in Queens, not going to Manhattan, not going to Queens, not going to the Bronx. Divide it into towns, use your natural boundaries. It could be figured out. ASSEMBLYMAN PARMENT: Oh, it could be figured out, you'd just have fewer members. Your testimony was you didn't want to lose members but you wanted Queens to be not subdivided, and the reason is you have all these members so it's subdivided. MR. HOLDEN: No, I'm talking about Queens, I'm not talking about New York City. ASSEMBLYMAN PARMENT: Maybe I misunderstood your testimony. MR. HOLDEN: Queens could have fewer congressmen representing them. Right now we have seven. They're crossing boundaries. It's pretty easy to figure out. ASSEMBLYMAN PARMENT: Right. To solidify that you'd have to lose some of the people that currently represent Queens. MR. HOLDEN: But New York City would not lose. That's what I'm saying. New York City should not lose. It could be figured out very easily. We just need honest -- you know, meetings on this and people sitting down and really wanting to do the right thing and not divide these communities. ASSEMBLYMAN PARMENT: But your major point is that Queens should not share members with other boroughs, is that what you're basically saying? MR. HOLDEN: I don't think anybody from Queens County in my area has gone down to Anthony Weiner's office down in Sheepshead Bay. It will take you an hour and a half to get down there in the traffic that we have today in New York City. That's not representation. That is not fair and honest representation to have these neighborhoods configured like this. This is ridiculous. We can't get to our -- First of all, they don't know who represents them, that's number one. But when you have districts that are just totally unreasonable, and to get around a city of eight million people, especially with all the construction, and to have a district, or to have a district office, congressional district office, way down in Sheepshead Bay -- and I live in Central Queens or Western Queens -- it's ludicrous. They could be figured out very easily, and a number of plans have been proposed. Civic leaders are getting together to look at this and try to make suggestions on the boundaries with this committee, and -- not very difficult if it's honest and fair. ASSEMBLYMAN ORTLOFF: May I ask a question? SENATOR SKELOS: Go ahead, Chris. ASSEMBLYMAN ORTLOFF: Have you in reaching the conclusion that it's not very difficult factored in the legal mandates of the Voting Rights Act in attempting to draw lines in Queens for congressional districts? MR. HOLDEN: Yes, yes. It can be done. Again, that's a complicated issue, but we did look at the lines, we do look at that, and certainly that's within the reach of this committee. I'd like to hear a good explanation from somebody on this committee as to why the lines were redrawn the way they are and really say that's bad representation for our districts. ASSEMBLYMAN ORTLOFF: Well, I was not on the Task Force 10 years ago so I can't answer directly, but knowing a little bit about the Voting Rights Act and looking at ethnic distribution of population, it strikes me looking at, for example, the Hispanic distribution, that there appears to be a correlation between the distribution of ethnic minorities protected under the Voting Rights Act and the bifurcation of Elmhurst. Have you examined that? MR. HOLDEN: The Hispanic population has grown since the last census, obviously, in Queens County. It's not very difficult to redraw the lines and keep that intact, and keep a neighborhood intact, what I'm saying. And, actually, you can cross lines. I'm not saying you can't have any -- you've got to keep every town intact. There may be natural boundaries that will help you. But with just a little common sense here -- and, again, you have the census numbers now and what we're looking at now is a big shift in the Hispanic population, or an influx, and it's not very difficult to accommodate a good district in that area. But, again, we're talking about -- I'm not going to get into what it should look like at this point, but it can be done. We've looked at it and it can be done with all the things you're saying. ASSEMBLYMAN ORTLOFF: I would only say, of course, it will be done and not everyone will agree with it, and I would invite you and -- You said your civic leaders are going to come up with and submit a plan to the Task Force? MR. HOLDEN: Yes. We will submit -- When we get all the census figures and sit down with all the leaders, we are -- Obviously, it's an idea, and there are three or four different ideas. However, we think it could be done, and, you know, this is something that, again, I think you would agree we shouldn't have a residential street being the boundaries for districts where one side is represented by one congressman and the other by another, and one district is 10 miles away -- one office is 10 miles away and the other one is 10 minutes away. ASSEMBLYMAN ORTLOFF: No, I certainly think, as I said before -- and I don't think you have any disagreement from us -- that the goal is to keep communities together so that communities may effectively choose their representation in Congress and in Albany. MR. HOLDEN: Again, just living in Maspeth all my life, to have three congressmen represent you, and then we have a civic person, you know, a member call up and say, well, I have a problem with this and then you'd send him down to the wrong office. And you have to have a map and you have to have a magnifying glass for this map that's this big, and it is just a nightmare, and it happens almost every week. I have three or four problems with that. And each congressman could tell you how may calls they get that they have to tell them to go somewhere else, even though they try to help them. And then the Assembly is the same thing. ASSEMBLYMAN ORTLOFF: I just invite you to submit those plans as early as you can so that we can take a good look at them. SENATOR DOLLINGER: I also want to encourage you to submit a plan. I hope that at some point we'll make available on our web site all the data that you need to draw one of those plans. My point, or my question is, really, I guess -- and I've noticed this, I guess, with a number of other speakers -- what I find somewhat interesting is that you're not asking for more representation. This is a county which has grown substantially. This is the area in the City of New York that, given population trends, it would seem to me several people have mentioned keeping the congressional districts here in the City, but I guess I'm surprised that people aren't saying that there should be more Assembly and maybe another Senate district in Queens because of the substantial increase in population. But, be that as it may, my question is this. Do you understand that one of the reasons why people that live on different sides of the street are different congressional districts is because the congressional districts must be exactly proportioned? We have no flexibility in the way we apportion the congressional seats? MR. HOLDEN: You're talking population we have to be exact. SENATOR DOLLINGER: The population must be identical. If you look at the population statistics -- and the people that did it 10 years ago will tell you -- there's a deviation of one person in the 31 congressional districts. Is it one? One person. They must be drawn identical in size. So we may have to not only divide streets, Lord knows we could divide them top and bottom in a triple decker. So, we have some very, very strong constraints on our ability to match the populations identically. I would suggest to you -- And the last thing I want to suggest -- and just ask for your comment -- when we were up in Ithaca, in the vicinity of Ithaca, we heard a college stand up and say we have three congressional representatives and we like having three congressional representatives. We think we have more clout, we have more power, we are able to leverage Federal funds because we have several congressional members, all of whom have a little piece in the immediate vicinity of Ithaca. Don't you think that you get more political leverage by having three congressional people? MR. HOLDEN: We had that argument in the civic association. But then the other argument is that you have such a small piece of a district that you're not going to get the attention. And, you know, obviously, if I had three congressmen -- and I do -- representing the area, we can go to three congressmen if we had to lobby and had a problem. However, your effectiveness, because you have maybe 50 people in that district or 100 members in that district, you're not very effective. I went through that for 10 years as a civic member, and I'm telling you that I'd rather deal with one congressman or one Assembly person who can represent my area and has the same interests and will fight for us hard. Not to say that the current ones don't, but we don't know what the future may have here. And, obviously, in redistricting the biggest problem, again, is confusing. If you live in -- again, I said with the congressman whose office is down in Sheepshead Bay, Brooklyn, that's the southernmost tip of Brooklyn, and you live in Western Queens, or more northern Queens, you have a big problem. You're not going to get down to that district, you're not going to go. And that's why these have to be reconfigured. And I agree, there's a double-edged sword here with that having more representation. But in 10 years of living with it I'd rather have one. SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you very much. George? MR. MALANDRAKIS: Good morning, Senators and Assemblymen, members of the Task Force and, of course, fellow Queens residents. It's my pleasure to speak today about the 14th Congressional District. When this district was formed in 1992, it was difficult for me to understand the connection. For the past 10 years I've realized it has been a good alliance. I first wish to speak as one of Hellenic descent. The 14th Congressional District probably includes more people of Hellenic descent than any other district in America. The Astoria portion of the district has the largest concentration of Americans of Hellenic descent outside of Athens, Greece. It's the mandate of this task force to provide for effective representation. Hellenic issues did not receive proper attention in Congress until the 14th Congressional District was formed to include Astoria and Long Island City, the East Side of Manhattan and the Upper West Side. In 1996 Congresswoman Maloney confounded the Congressional Caucus on Hellenic Issues, which with Representative Bilirakis of Florida. The Hellenic Caucus currently has 84 members. The members of the Caucus act together to promote legislation, monitor and arrange briefings on current events, and disseminate information to interested parties. The Caucus has succeeded in focusing congressional debate on issues that are important to Hellenes, such as the importance of reunifying Cyprus and resolving the question of the missing. The Astoria and Long Island City area is home to a large concentration of Hellenic cultural and civic organizations, including the Hellenic-American Neighborhood Action Committee, the Cretans Association of Omonoia, of which I am a board member, the Cretan's Woman's Association - Pasiphae, the Federation of Dodecanesian Societies, Chian Federation of New York, the Federation of Hellenic Societies of Greater New York, the Greek-American Homeowners, Inc., the Pan Arcadian Federation of America, the Pancretan Association of America, the Pan Cyprian Association, the United Cyprians of America, and the Cephalonian Society of America, Inc. In order to serve the Greek community appropriately, it makes sense for one district to encompass both Astoria and the East Side of Manhattan, which is truly a focal point of Hellenic-American culture. Located on the East Side is the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America, which is headquartered on East 79th Street, Holy Trinity Greek Orthodox Cathedral on East 74th Street, the Onassis Public Benefit Foundation, housed at the Olympic Tower on 5th Avenue, the Foundation of Hellenic Culture on 57th Street, Hellenic and the Cyprus Trade Center on East 40th Street, and Hellenic-American Chamber of Commerce on 6th Avenue in the mid-30s. The Cypriot Consulate sponsors frequent cultural events and exhibits. Furthermore, the 14th Congressional District's West Side includes a major Greek Orthodox church, the Church of the Annunciation, located on 91st Street and West End Avenue. It makes sense to keep the Hellenic community united by keeping Astoria and Long Island City in the same congressional district as the East Side. Only by keeping us together will our interests truly receive the attention and concern they deserve. As a concerned community worker, I have been requested by the senior citizens also at a later time to submit some petitions with their signatures, that someone else will submit. In addition, it's necessary to note that the 14th Congressional District in Queens is receiving more and more migration from Manhattan. The new waves of business people who would have normally moved to Manhattan, are now living in Queens. The museums are expanding their influence and the arts are moving in. Queens really is the new Soho. I would like to thank the Task Force for allowing me to submit my testimony. SENATOR SKELOS: Any questions? ASSEMBLYMAN PARMENT: Yes, I would. In the Astoria area, as I understand this map, the 14th District in Astoria basically is northerly of Astoria Boulevard. Is that a logical dividing line of the Astoria area in regard to the Hellenic community? MR. MALANDRAKIS: It's worked. We have a very large Greek-American population in that area, which is very well-represented. ASSEMBLYMAN PARMENT: And what about south of that boulevard? MR. MALANDRAKIS: That census I don't have for. I wouldn't know those figures. ASSEMBLYMAN PARMENT: That isn't part of that community then. MR. MALANDRAKIS: If it's not in this congressional district I'm not aware of the census count in that area. ASSEMBLYMAN PARMENT: No, I'm just asking if the Hellenic community is south of the boulevard? MR. MALANDRAKIS: I don't want to go on record saying that it is, but there is a large population of Greeks in that general area. I don't know if compared to the Astoria area, also. ASSEMBLYMAN PARMENT: Your testimony is somewhat at odds with the testimony we've previously heard, and I think that's about the second or third divergent view we've had of this situation. You apparently see no problem in having a congressional district that's in two boroughs. MR. MALANDRAKIS: To my knowledge it's worked til now, and I'd see it fit to keep it that way. ASSEMBLYMAN PARMENT: And you don't feel it disadvantages Queens to be linked with Manhattan. MR. MALANDRAKIS: No, at least not in this congressional district. ASSEMBLYMAN PARMENT: Thank you. SENATOR SKELOS: Mirajul Hoque, H-o-q-u-e? Sarah Belleas? Mary Marangos? MS. BELLEAS: Good morning. My name is Sarah Belleas. I live in Astoria, Queens. I am here today because I would like to see the 14th Congressional District kept intact. Four years ago my husband and I, and our two children, moved from the Upper West Side to our current home in Astoria. We feel we are still very much connected to Manhattan and, in fact, our two children still attend school in Manhattan. We are so close to Manhattan we feel as though Astoria is a Manhattan neighborhood. In 20 minutes I can be in midtown Manhattan on a ride on the "N" train. I can pick up my children from school by car in 20 minutes. I do a lot of shopping and dining in Manhattan because of the convenience, and I know a lot of Manhattanites who come to Astoria for the same. Because of the high cost of housing in Manhattan, Astoria is the preferred choice to live. Astoria is changing and growing fast. I have lived in the 14th Congressional District for the last 12 years. I have dealt with Congresswoman Carolyn Maloney's office in the past, and I feel she is someone who has a good understanding of this district. Thank you very much. SENATOR SKELOS: Questions? SENATOR DOLLINGER: Just one comment, Sarah. Just so you know -- and I think it relates to our last speaker, as well -- we have to add 46,344 new people to this district, so it will look somewhat different when we get done, no matter what happens. So we can't keep its current boundaries intact. We have to move those, if for no other reason, to enlarging it to add 46,000 more people into it. So I just want to make that clear. Mr. Malandrakis, we cannot preserve the current boundaries. We have to change them. The question is where we change them. And my question to you is would you change and add people in Queens? Are there people in Queens that have a community of interest with the rest of this congressional district, and where should we look to find those people? That's why I think Assemblyman Parment's question about the boulevard and whether it's north or south of the boulevard is where we should go to find new people. I won't speak for him, but we have to find new people. MS. BELLEAS: I think you could find those people in Astoria on the other side of the boulevard. SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay. SENATOR SKELOS: Mary? MS. MARANGOS: My name is Mary Marangos and I've been living in Queens for 38 years, having relocated from Manhattan, in what is now the 14th Congressional District. And, rather than going over everything you have already heard, I'm submitting my testimony. I think I'd like to address some of the questions that came up right now. One of the senators asked about if there are Hellenes basically south of Astoria Boulevard, and the answer is yes. There is a very large community in there. And if it was united with basically a line drawn Steinway or above, and connected down into Long Island City, I think you would get a more cohesive Hellenic population. The reason that I believe we as Hellenes are happy now with the district is because for the first time we have gotten some representation, which up til now, if you will have checked on even the electorate issues of even city officers, there was none. We have now one State Senator and that is it. For the large Hellenic population it really shows that we were under-represented in the political arena, and now we have finally been able -- I believe the Hellenic Caucus has done a lot to give us a base from which to work. I also have here with me -- and, as I said, I am not going to bore you -- but I have petitions from people of Hellenic descent that wish to submit their wish to keep or expand the community so that we could have more cohesiveness. Thank you very much. SENATOR SKELOS: We will accept those. ASSEMBLYMAN PARMENT: Could I pursue a question on that? Could you just describe for me geographically the Hellenic community, if possible? MS. MARANGOS: Well, the Hellenic community is spread out, as all communities are in Queens, but we have a large base that goes from the northern end, which would be the Con Edison plant, and the Power Authority, which we have a lot of. We would love to get rid of those, all the way up to LaGuardia Airport, across the highway. Basically, we have Hellenes living in the Jackson Heights area, beyond St. Michael's Cemetery and below the cemetery, and to a degree probably up around Broadway and a little bit beyond Broadway. Then I believe there might be a little more of a -- not as many Hellenes living in that area. And I know there are not as many in the official Long Island City and Maspeth area. But I know the communities have worked well as far as an alliance with the two boroughs. So I think the lines could be drawn not to disrupt a community that has for the first time found some cohesiveness and been able to work in the political arena, and not get destroyed and, yet, not impede on other people who would want the same thing, and perhaps the lines be drawn to keep two or three groups together. ASSEMBLYMAN PARMENT: And, again, south of the boulevard there is a Hellenic community. MS. MARANGOS: Yes. Yes, there is. ASSEMBLYMAN PARMENT: In Astoria, the Ravenswood area? MS. MARANGOS: Yes. Ravenswood? ASSEMBLYMAN PARMENT: Ravenswood, the next community down? MS. MARANGOS: Ravenswood, no. ASSEMBLYMAN PARMENT: No. So, it's in Astoria. MS. MARANGOS: It's in Astoria, it's going towards Long Island City. That's where you find -- In other words, right now the 14th Congressional District is actually cut out. It's really a crazy way. It comes up and then we go down like to 21st Street, just about, and then we come back, and then you go up to Sunnyside and you're going into Maspeth. That small section that's kind of cut out has people that are very -- you know, it's a heterogeneous population, that central area with the section that is now the 14th Congressional District. And I do understand that each group has to, I believe, expand by 50,000 people? Is that what the numbers are now? SENATOR SKELOS: The Congressional Districts 54,000. MS. MARANGOS: Yes. And if you look at the districts it's very hard to do it any other way. ASSEMBLYMAN PARMENT: Just the other question, this area of Queens apparently does not feel, in your opinion, disadvantaged by being represented in an area that includes the West Side of Manhattan? MS. MARANGOS: No. No. Like I said, that's where I lived, that's where I grew up, so I have -- And I'll tell you something, Senator, why don't you let us take you for dinner one day in the Astoria area and give you a complete tour of the area and show you all the different groups? ASSEMBLYMAN PARMENT: Sounds good to me. SENATOR DOLLINGER: I'll be part of that. MS. MARANGOS: Very nice. Thank you. SENATOR DOLLINGER: Can I ask just one question, and I should have asked this of Mr. Malandrakis. What do you estimate the Queens population of Hellenic descent is? MS. MARANGOS: To be honest with you I can't tell you. SENATOR DOLLINGER: Can you give me just an estimate? I mean, is it mostly all in the Eastern Queens/Long Island City -- MS. MARANGOS: Area? SENATOR DOLLINGER: Yes. MS. MARANGOS: I think the old families are, the established families are. That's why we also have a very large senior population there, which is another issue that we're not going to go into right now. But I think some of the family groups have been moving out to Whitestone and some have been moving out to Bayside. But most of the active -- let me say politically active people are still based out of the Astoria area. SENATOR DOLLINGER: And with respect to the State Senate districts, those are all currently in a single State Senate district. Most of them is in Senator Onorato's district mostly? MS. MARANGOS: Yes, that's correct. SENATOR DOLLINGER: And does his district go -- I don't have his map right here in front of me -- south of the boulevard? MS. MARANGOS: Yes. If I remember correctly, I think he does, and I believe then he meets -- I think then he meet Cathy Nolan's district, isn't it? SENATOR DOLLINGER: That's an Assembly District. MS. MARANGOS: I'm sorry, yes. My apologies. Getting them mixed up today. SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you. ASSEMBLYMAN ORTLOFF: Could I ask you to address that, also, to the Assembly District? The 36th Assembly District appears to pretty much encompass the community you're talking about. MS. MARANGOS: Correct. Yes, it does. ASSEMBLYMAN ORTLOFF: Would you have any commentary or recommendations regarding changing or modifying the Assembly Districts at all? MS. MARANGOS: No, I think the Assembly Districts have worked very well. I have not heard, living in the community, complaints from people that they're not being well-represented on the Assembly level, so I wouldn't really see any reason to change it, because, as you said, it is all encompassed. There's not a problem as far as in that respect. Now, you know, there are two Congressional people that you're dealing with. To a degree, you know, there is sometimes a difference in who do we go to. City Council is basically pretty well set with us, too. But I think -- I think the other lines have been -- I think the people have been pretty happy with the lines, but if they have to expand I think we would be happy if you would expand into Queens rather than trying to expand into Astoria, where I think there's a few problems. ASSEMBLYMAN ORTLOFF: Thank you. SENATOR SKELOS: Parag Khandhar, K-h-a-n-d-h-a-r? MR. KHANDHAR: Good morning. I would like to thank the Task Force for giving me the opportunity to speak. My name is Parag Khandhar, and I'm a Policy Analyst at the Asian American Federation of New York. The Federation is a nonpartisan leadership organization with 36 member agencies that serve the social and human service needs of the Asian American community of New York. In addition to extensive infrastructure development of community-serving agencies, the Federation established a Public Policy Initiative to ensure that there are always representative voices emphasizing Asian American community concerns in the policy arena. The Federation led the Asian American Task Force on Census 2000, a collective of over 65 organizations, to make sure that there was an accurate count of Asian Americans in the Census 2000. In August 2000 the Census Bureau designated the Asian American Federation a Census Information Center. The Federation CIC serves as a point of access for Asian American community for interpretation and analysis of census and other data. We have extensive data dissemination analysis and soon mapping capabilities. We submit this testimony to outline the specific ways for the Task Force to ensure that Asian Americans can participate fully in the New York State redistricting process. The process will have a significant impact on Asian American New Yorkers, both in how current residents are represented now and how future community members will be represented until the next redistricting process. From the traditionally-recognized Asian ethnic enclaves, such as the Chinatowns of Manhattan and Brooklyn, and Little India of Jackson Heights, Queens, to the emerging immigrant neighborhoods, such as Richmond Hill, Queens, and Sheepshead Bay, Brooklyn, to the vibrant multi-ethnic Asia American communities of Flushing and Elmhurst, Queens. Asian Americans are a central part of New York City and New York State. The Asian American Federation CIC has conducted extensive analysis of the Census 2000 data that's been released by the Census Bureau so far. The data shows tremendous growth in the Asian American community, with a total of over 1.15 million individuals in New York State that identified themselves as Asian on their census form. Census 2000 was the first time that individuals could mark more than one category when identifying their race. We believe that any person who self-identifies as Asia American, either solely or in part, is a member of the community and should be included as such. The number of individuals who self-identified as Asia American in New York City grew from 509,955 in 1990 to 872,777 in 2000, a growth rate of 71.1 percent. Asian Americans now constitute 10.9 percent of the total population in New York City. The growth rate of the Asian American community in the specific boroughs of New York is even more noteworthy. The Brooklyn Asian American community grew from 110,000 to 206,000 plus, a growth rate of 86.7 percent between 1990 and 2000. Nearly 50 percent of Asian American New Yorkers reside in Queens, 23.6 percent reside in Brooklyn, and 18 percent reside in Manhattan. One in five Queens residents is Asian American. While all detailed race data has not yet been released, the Bureau has released the population totals for six Asian ethnicities, as well as Chinese, Filipino, Indian, Japanese, Korean, Vietnamese, as well as other Asian. The other Asian grouping includes every other ethnicity of significant import here in New York City, the Pakistani, Bangladeshi, Cambodia, and Thai communities, as well as many others. The Chinese American community remains the largest in New York City, with 361,000. Nearly 39 percent of Chinese Americans live in Queens, 33 percent live in Brooklyn and 24 percent live in Manhattan. Indian Americans are the second largest, but show the most dramatic growth, with a growth rate of over 80 percent, and an overwhelming amount, 64 percent, living in Queens. The same for Korean and Filipino Americans, the overwhelming majority reside in Queens. In 1990 the Bureau estimated an undercount of 3.2 percent of the Asian American community of New York City. After a broad-reaching outreach and advocacy campaign during Census 2000, the Asian American Task Force on Census 2000, spearheaded by the Federation, concluded that the Bureau did not adequately reach New York City's immigrant, non-English-speaking neighborhoods in its enumeration of the population. As a result, we believe that there was a significant undercount of Asian American New Yorkers in Census 2000. The Commerce Secretary has yet to determine whether he will release the 2000 figures, that have been adjusted for any undercount and, also, for any double count. We urge this Task Force to use the most accurate census numbers available for redistricting purposes. A significant issue with Census 2000 data may be the classification of certain groups. One such group from whom we've heard some testimony today, are Indo-Caribbeans. Indo-Caribbeans consist of the descendants of Indian migrants that have lived in the Caribbean nations of Guyana, Trinidad, and Tobago, and other nations for well over 100 years. A substantial percentage of Indo-Caribbeans that migrate to the United States, settle in New York City, there are very significant Indo-Guyanese and Indo-Trinidadian communities concentrated in South Central Queens -- Richmond Hill, Ozone Park, South Ozone Park, and Jamaica -- as well as other neighborhoods. From our extensive outreach in Queens during the Census 2000 campaign, we have substantial reason to believe that Indo-Caribbean community members may have marked a variety of responses to the race question on the census form. Many Indo-Caribbeans have strong ethnic identities as people of Indian ancestry, cultural identities as Caribbeans, and national identities as Guyanese or Trinidadian. We believe that some individuals may have marked Asian, Indian only, some may have marked some other race and written in Guyanese or Trinidadian. And, still others may have checked off Asian-Indian, checked off some other race, and filled in Guyanese, Trinidadian, or another country. If this is the case the Census Bureau will tabulate these individuals as biracial -- Asian and some other race -- even if they are not. The Federation CIC analysis shows an unusually large percentage of Asians who marked more than one race in community board districts in Queens that include the neighborhoods listed above -- Richmond Hill, Ozone Park, South Ozone Park, et cetera. For example, Census 2000 data identified a total of 40,000 plus people who identified as Asia only in Community Boards 9 and 10 in Queens, which includes Richmond Hill and Ozone Park. However, a total of 13,000 plus individuals in these two districts marked Asian in combination with at least one other race. As a result, the full size of the community may not be ascertained with one look at the Asian-only totals for any given area. And this is not only the case for Indo-Caribbeans, but this is the most blatant case that we see. The Federation CIC will continue to vigilantly address this issue with the race statistics experts in the Bureau's headquarters in DC. Now, while this data may seem complicated, we urge the Task Force to use data that tabulates individuals that marked Asian in combination with any other race in the redistricting process, specifically in the interest of keeping communities of interest, such as the Indo-Caribbean communities of Southeastern Queens, in single legislative districts. I just want to speak very, very briefly on an open and transparent redistricting process, which is critical for Asian American communities in New York to ensure that community members, leaders, and organizations have the ability to inform the decisions made by this Task Force that will impact their lives for the next 10 years. There are two primary concerns that we raise to the Task Force in this regard. First, the public hearing process should be much more open for input from the public. Meetings should be publicized well in advance, using mainstream as well as ethnic media outlets to make certain that interested community members can attend ad participate to inform the work of the Task Force. In addition to that, today's hearing is in the middle of a working day. Very few, if any, community members, can come to the hearing to talk about their own communities, save for those who do not work, or those of us whose work entails attending these hearings. Coupled with advance notice and more public hearings in each borough, there must be hearings on weekday evenings and weekends. A second way to ensure a more open process is by making all data sets that the Task Force will be using, such as analyses of voter registration, election data, and racial block voting, as well as transcripts of these public hearings and other relevant documents, easily accessible. This is possible via the internet, CD ROM, public terminals placed in locations such as the Task Force office, public libraries and other public locations. And, finally, I would just like to say that it is absolutely critical -- Well, let me continue to read. I'm sorry. As a membership organization of social and human service agencies, the Asian American Federation has documented the needs of Asian Americans over the past 10 years. One theme that continues to rise with our membership organizations is that there are may common issues that bring different Asian American communities and neighborhoods together. Socially, politically, and historically, Asian American communities have more in common with one another than different here in New York City, specifically in their needs of their constituencies. In New York City limited English proficiency and need for language access and culturally-competent provision of social services, such as health care and counseling, are pervasive issues that all Asia American communities face, as well as other immigrant communities. Anti-Asian stereotypes, discrimination, and violence continue to bring together different Asian communities to fight these battles together. Common community concerns, such as access to affordable housing, services for Asian elderly and English language education also bring together different Asian American communities. It is with this in mind that the Federation urges the Task Force to preserve the contiguity of Asian American communities throughout the City by ensuring that these communities are not split between different legislative districts. Some Asian American communities have grown tremendously since the 1990 redistricting process and are split between two, three, sometimes even four State Assembly and State Senate Districts. Preliminary maps created by the Federation CIC show sufficient tracking of neighborhoods with a high concentration of Asian Americans to warrant attention from this task force. We will submit more detailed analysis of these neighborhoods and communities to the Task Force in the coming weeks. Thank you. SENATOR SKELOS: Questions? ASSEMBLYMAN PARMENT: In these neighborhoods, do you also have indications of political cohesiveness? SENATOR SKELOS: I think, as has been mentioned before, there is some data -- and there are also -- There are individuals who are working to -- and organizations that are working to collect that data, as well. But there is some indication that there is political cohesiveness. ASSEMBLYMAN PARMENT: And in those Asians that marked Asian and other, would they be included in that political cohesiveness? MR. KHANDHAR: I would believe so. What our belief is is that the way that the Census Bureau in the way that it classifies race and the way that it allows people to fill in their race, that there is a misclassification of a lot of people. So we believe that it's actually one community that's been separated into a lot of different pieces via the Census Bureau's manner of collecting data, and that's been corroborated with a lot of discussion with community members in the field. ASSEMBLYMAN PARMENT: Is that discussion anecdotal, or have you done some scientific surveys of that? MR. KHANDHAR: We're actually working on some more substantial surveys. There have been -- There is definitely a process that people are working through, and we can submit that to the Task Force. ASSEMBLYMAN PARMENT: If you could that would be helpful. MR. KHANDHAR: Absolutely. MR. HEDGES: It sounds like you've got a plan here. Are you going to be submitting suggested lines? MR. KHANDHAR: We have the capacity to do everything from drawing district plans for interested community members. Our goal is, first and foremost, to make sure that this process is open to as many community members and interested parties as possible. The Federation has not determined -- we're still working on that -- to determine whether we will submit a plan ourselves. MR. HEDGES: I think from our point of view it would be very helpful if you would submit plans. I think that making your concerns about community boundaries and neighborhoods tangible is the best way to give us guidance, and something that we would very, very much welcome. ASSEMBLYMAN ORTLOFF: In taking your testimony and looking at your work, and then in looking at the geography, it seems to me that you essentially have two different but parallel courses that you're bringing to us. In the one you make a strong case that communities of Asian Americans are currently divided and, thus, do not have the clout that they might otherwise have. I'd like to call your attention, however, to two Assembly Districts which currently, under the 2000 figures, have 48 or 49 percent Asian population, and that's the preliminary cut. It may very well be larger of the multiple ethnicities are added in. One of those is the 25th Assembly District in Queens. What evidence can you bring to the Task Force that the Asian community is politically active sufficient in that district now to elect an Assembly member of its choice? MR. KHANDHAR: At this juncture I think we -- what we'll be trying to do -- Can you actually repeat the question, please? ASSEMBLYMAN ORTLOFF: Yes. Let me rephrase it, too. I mean, I can see the point of saying here's a community and it's split and we can't really affect our political destiny. I would like to direct your attention to the 25th Assembly District, which currently has 49 percent Asian under the new census. What evidence do we have that you can bring us to help us, to see that in that district, where the Asian community is the largest ethnic minority and is close to being able to elect, that you've reflected that proportion of the population in your political voting patterns? MR. KHANDHAR: It's only actually Asian American community organizations that have collected this data, to begin with. And there has been a substantial effort to collect this data, and I think what we're seeing right now is political activity that is unparalleled in the past. And, so, what we'll be doing now is actually trying to document, to get a sense of where -- to further document what other organizations and other community groups have done, to get a sense of where the community is. We've seen some voting patterns, and we've seen that, at least in Queens, that a vast majority of Asian Americans vote in a certain way. But we want to have something that's much more presentable to the Task Force. ASSEMBLYMAN ORTLOFF: Have Asian candidates run for office in that part of Queens? MR. KHANDHAR: Yes. ASSEMBLYMAN ORTLOFF: Successfully? MR. KHANDHAR: No. ASSEMBLYMAN ORTLOFF: Run for the Assembly? MR. KHANDHAR: I'm not certain. ASSEMBLYMAN ORTLOFF: City Council? MR. KHANDHAR: City Council, yes. ASSEMBLYMAN ORTLOFF: Let me ask you another question. And your testimony with respect to the importance of political data, the data sets, runs counter to testimony we've received from Common Cause, the League of Women Voters, and the New York Public Interest Research Group, which advocates that we be completely blind -- that we, as well as you -- be completely unable to correlate that data. But I'd like to give you an opportunity to address their opinion and take -- either agree with them or disagree with them. MR. KHANDHAR: Well, I think that it's been stated in the previous hearing that -- I mean, it's not a simple -- In terms of where the Federation stands, I can't necessarily speak on their behalf, but I can speak that -- I think that we feel that in the political reality that we're in -- I'm assuming that you're speaking of the partisan -- ASSEMBLYMAN ORTLOFF: Yes, enrollment, voting behavior, election results. MR. KHANDHAR: We believe that it would be helpful in determining where these boundaries should be. ASSEMBLYMAN ORTLOFF: So you would not agree with those who say that we should be prohibited from considering that data. MR. KHANDHAR: I think we also need to have a better sense of what it means not to release that data, but at this juncture, I mean, that's where we are. ASSEMBLYMAN ORTLOFF: Okay. Thank you. SENATOR DOLLINGER: Just a couple of questions. First of all, I want to make sure I reiterate Roman Hedges' encouragement to submit a plan. As you know, we can talk about boundaries and concepts all we want to, but it's actually putting the lines on the ground that make the difference, and I would just encourage you to do that, as well. I want to clarify one thing. You said that your Federation had done a study of the 1990 census and found that there was an undercount of about 3.2 percent. MR. KHANDHAR: Actually, the Census Bureau has done that. SENATOR DOLLINGER: The Census Bureau. Is that a Census Bureau number for New York City and the Asian count in New York City? MR. KHANDHAR: That's correct. SENATOR DOLLINGER: Do you have any information about the significance of the undercount in New York City for the same data for the year 2000, either higher or lower than that 3.2 percent? MR. KHANDHAR: A conservative estimate would say it's the same, and I think that we believe that -- we don't have any conclusive data. I know that we're urging the Census Bureau to release what they have done with their accuracy and coverage evaluation. But we believe -- I mean, we believe that the undercount is significant for Asian-American communities. SENATOR DOLLINGER: My other question is, you talked about the self-designation process in the census and how it impacts classifications within the census. Is it your judgment, or the Federation's judgement, that part of the undercount is due to the fact that there was confusion among people filling out the forms in how they designated themselves? MR. KHANDHAR: I think the undercount, specifically for non-English speaking, for recent immigrant communities, I think the undercount is due to the fact that the outreach was not really done in language. I think that the undercount is due to the fact that the media outlets that the Census Bureau did choose did not hit all the right places. I mean, I feel that it wasn't clear to community members as a whole that this is a confidential process. I mean, we had elected officials coming out and saying why should I fill this out, you know, why should you ask all these questions? And, you know, when you have recent immigrants, well, why would they do that, as well? So, I think there are a tremendous number of reasons. I don't think that the undercount is due to -- I wouldn't say a large amount. I'm sure that some people might have filled out one way or another, but I think that it is really due to the fact that the Census Bureau did not adequately cover it. SENATOR DOLLINGER: Right. Well, that's what I'm trying to find out. Are you suggesting that these are people that were just missed, that never filled out the forms. Or -- and this is what I want to clarify -- are you suggesting that because of the designation process they were not properly included within particular cultural, ethnic, or racial breakdowns? MR. KHANDHAR: There are two different claims. SENATOR DOLLINGER: I know they're two different things. I'm trying to find out if -- MR. KHANDHAR: Both. SENATOR DOLLINGER: Is it your position they were undercounted in both? MR. KHANDHAR: Well, our position is that there was definitely an undercount. We don't know to what degree at this point, and we're hoping that the Census Bureau will release this data. And, number two is that with the individuals that have been counted that we just need to be very clear about what the limitations of the designation process are. But that would be separate from the undercount issue. SENATOR DOLLINGER: And so it's your opinion that in order for this task force to really do its job for what's on the ground in New York, especially in Queens, that we ought to get the statistically-adjusted data so that we can find out how many people there really are here? MR. KHANDHAR: I think that we should have -- I think that the Task Force should have access to that data and should make a judgment of which is more accurate. SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay. Thank you. MR. KHANDHAR: You're welcome. SENATOR SKELOS: Any other questions? Thank you very much. Joshua Kim? Gary Girdhari, Editor of the Guyana Journal Magazine. Welcome. MR. GIRDHARI: Thank you. Good morning or good afternoon. Good morning. My name is Gary Girdhari. I'm the Editor of Guyana Journal, a monthly magazine published in Queens, New York. This magazine covers a wide range of educational and cultural matter. We are in our sixth year of operation. I settled in Queens, New York in 1981, at first in Astoria, and since 1984 I have been residing in Ozone Park, New York. When I was looking to purchase a home I had no knowledge of South Queens. One distinct lasting experience, as told to me subsequently by my real estate agent, was the time my wife and I accompanied the agent to a property in Ozone Park. The owner peered to see the prospects and bluntly told the agent that he was not showing to colored people. Shortly after I bought a property on the same block, on the opposite side of the avenue, in May 1984. The very next day after moving in I walked around the corner to find my car jacked up, minus its two rear wheels. It soon dawned on me that there was no other person of color on the streets except, of course, my three children and my wife. Afterwards I learned that there were two other families in my neighborhood who are Indians. I can say without fear of contradiction, that I was there in Ozone Park at the beginning of the new wave of immigrants from the Caribbean, and I am still here. All the people we knew then were white. It was difficult to make friends because of apprehension of one kind or another. Since 1984 home ownership in South Queens changed hands very rapidly, and this was not without occasional overt prejudicial imbroglio. The reasons for the changing demographics and vexing outbursts are many and varied, but it's not the subject to be discussed here and now. Walk through the streets of Ozone Park, Richmond Hill, South Ozone Park, Woodhaven, and you will see that there are more people of color now. Yet these people, we, are not known. I can speak of these people only because they live in my immediate and outlying neighborhoods. They are predominantly Indo-Caribbeans. My historical cultural commonality is more with the Indo-Caribbeans of my neighborhood. These people are a second diaspora, the first being indentured Indians to the Caribbean and now to the United States, South Queens being the place where they predominate and continue to settle. Thus, this community of Indo-Caribbeans must be seen as a whole and be kept together as a whole. It is this group -- it is to this group particularly that my testimony relates. I do not possess any statistics of the Indo-Caribbean population in South Queens, but unofficial estimates vary from 200,000 to 400,000, or more, if the undocumented are accounted for. Yet, we are not known. We contribute our fair share, to the Federal, State, and City coffers in various forms of taxes, yet we are not known. We energize the economy of the area by revitalizing businesses and buttressing the professions. No more are storefronts seen with gates shut, yet we are not known. We are laymen and women, factory workers and laborers, doctors and dentists, academics and teachers, brokers of real estate, insurance and financial services, businessmen and women, writers, poets, artists, and others, filling every niche of activity, contributing to the growth and development of our neighborhoods and America. Indeed, in the Indo-Caribbean community there is a uniqueness in dress, dance, music, food, custom, religious routines, and other cultural practices. They convey a unique attribute to their community. One needs only walk on Liberty Avenue in Richmond Hill and Ozone Park, yet we are not known. Indo-Caribbeans are not represented, or minimally so, on school boards. We do not serve our people in our neighborhoods by being in the police precincts, or minimally so. We have no one in the City Council, nor the State Assembly, nor in Congress, nor the Senate. Our people have no political decision-making authority. We are not known. Indo-Caribbean peoples have come a long way. We are not marginal; we are mainstream. These people are increasingly becoming more politically active. They are becoming naturalized. They're registered to vote and would like to take part in the affairs of their community. We must now be known. It is time that we have direct political say in the affairs by assuring that we have the opportunity and the fundamental right to elect representatives of our choice. Redistricting must not take away from our people but, rather, serve to empower them. In 1997 I was asked to send copies of the Guyana Journal, of which I am the Editor, to the Queensborough President's office. I decided to take them myself. A white lady welcomed me and asked me how to pronounce and spell Guyana. In fact, she said Ge-ana. Less than two months ago I was speaking with a white insurance agent who insisted on mispronouncing the word Guyana, despite being told the correct way. Yesterday I called the Task Force office and told the lady that I was from the Guyana Journal. She could not spell Guyana. Does this tell you anything? Need I say more? Thank you. SENATOR SKELOS: Questions? ASSEMBLYMAN ORTLOFF: I have a question. It looks as though the general area you're speaking about is divided into four different Assembly Districts right now. MR. GIRDHARI: I am not sure. ASSEMBLYMAN ORTLOFF: Are you aware of where the Assembly District lies? MR. GIRDHARI: No, I'm not sure. ASSEMBLYMAN ORTLOFF: If the population in that area is, as you say, 200,000, that would certainly be in excess of the population of an Assembly District. MR. GIRDHARI: The figure of 200,000 is in South Queens. It's a rough estimate, and there is no official estimate or figures on what the actual population is. These are anecdotal. ASSEMBLYMAN ORTLOFF: If the Task Force were able to draw an Assembly District which encompassed this community, how many members would be eligible to vote in that group? How politically active is the Indo-Caribbean community? MR. GIRDHARI: Indo-Caribbean people are very active, or becoming very, very active. At this point in time I have tried to address some questions in generalities, and we are working with some other people to give more concerted answers to certain questions such as you are addressing, or you would like to address. I cannot provide you that information at this point in time. ASSEMBLYMAN ORTLOFF: Are you a weekly? MR. GIRDHARI: Monthly. ASSEMBLYMAN ORTLOFF: What's the circulation? MR. GIRDHARI: It varies from month to month depending on the subject area, but approximately 6,000. ASSEMBLYMAN ORTLOFF: Is it paid or free? MR. GIRDHARI: It is paid, but you know how it goes. It is paid by subscription. It's on the web -- some things are on the web. ASSEMBLYMAN ORTLOFF: Would you be agreeable to providing the Task Force with a -- I don't mean the entire list perhaps, but a geographic distribution of where your subscribers are? MR. GIRDHARI: Certainly. ASSEMBLYMAN ORTLOFF: Thank you. I'd appreciate that very much. ASSEMBLYMAN PARMENT: Thank you. The next witness is Maria Tolois, T-o-l-o-i-s. AnneMarie Scanlon? Dr. Gail Mellow? And while the witness is coming to the microphone, I would point out that we've been joined at this hearing by Assemblywoman Marchi and Assemblyman Ivan Lafayette. DR. MELLOW: I am Gail Mellow, the President of LaGuardia Community College. It's a pleasure to be able to address you here today. And let me thank you in advance for what I know is a difficult task. Sometimes when I have to reallocate faculty offices I must have just a tiny bit of understanding of what you are about to do. ASSEMBLYMAN PARMENT: I had that job once. I don't envy you. This is probably easier. DR. MELLOW: I am here probably with one very general message, which is that the way in which our congressional districts are framed really has a direct bearing on the students at LaGuardia Community College. We have about 11,000 credit and about 28,000 non-credit students who are part of our community. Those students come from over 140 different countries. They speak over 104 different languages. This is the new America that LaGuardia is being able to educate and it's very exciting, and if you've ever thought about what the Lower East Side of New York City looked like around the turn of the century, you know the kind of energy and spirit and commitment to building and rebuilding America that we have here. Our ability to speak with one voice at a congressional level is extraordinarily important. About a third of the students at LaGuardia are on Federal financial aid. Many of our grants and contracts -- we have grants with the National Science Foundation, we just got almost half a million dollars from the National Science Foundation to do advanced technology training. We have grants with NASA, where our students are analyzing -- I always think -- sort of alien outer space things, but they're doing mathematical calculations on data that is derived from NASA. Our ability to have clear representation, both for LaGuardia students and, also, for Queens County, is very important. So, my testimony today really involves the sense of finding ways -- and I know that it's difficult -- to consolidate our ability to speak with one voice in the places that we need to, by really looking at districts that can be contained solely within Queens County. Queens is extraordinarily diverse. When you look at what happens in Queens, it's quite different than what might happen in Westchester or other parts of New York State, and our ability to represent our students and represent this emergent and very complex Queens voice is really predicated on our ability to have congressional districts that allow that kind of concentration. It is very difficult to understand what this multi-ethnic, multi-national, multi-lingual population needs. And to have that split across very different kinds of communities makes the ability of a person who is sitting in the House of Representatives even more complex. So I would ask that you look at that. I would also ask, just generically -- now, I was born in Buffalo, New York and I don't want you to think that I'm a turncoat in any way, but it's important, I think, to really look at districting in terms of giving voice to the individuals who really are growing, and that really is in the City and, in particular, it's in Queens. And the ability to have that voice represented is very key to us. So, those really are the two things that I wanted to say, other than wishing you good luck and I'd be happy to answer any questions. SENATOR DOLLINGER: I just have one. The issue that you raise about rising new voices, one of the things that we have some discretion on is both in Assembly and Senate Districts. We can vary their size, in contrast to the Congressional Districts that have to be completely equally apportioned. We have some play in the apportionment. Based on your experience here in Queens, would it be your opinion that we should take the Senate and Assembly Districts and make them on the small side of that percentage, to account for the continuing wave of new growth that you would see? You're here, you're on the ground, you see in your school more and more new people coming in, those new voices that you talked about, that new America that you talked about. Would it be your opinion that we should, in essence, create smaller -- to the extent we can -- smaller districts, Senate and Assembly Districts, in the areas that are growing in order to accommodate those voices? DR. MELLOW: It's a very interesting question. Of course, I want to say, well, if that means more representation that sounds like an absolutely fabulous idea. SENATOR DOLLINGER: It might. It might. DR. MELLOW: And I do think that that's very important. And let me just give you an example of our student government. We have student governance. They were just elected so this is very -- we actually had an internet election and we had our first instance of internet, I wouldn't say fraud, but confusion, so don't go there very fast. Looking at the differences between students who are coming in from -- there are two from South America, one is Bolivian and one is Mexican, and their communities are quite different than the students who are coming from the sort of Indo-Pakistani -- one is Bengali and one is Pakistani. And, so, one way to say it is in order to really understand the differences, a smaller Congressional District that would really allow an individual who is going to serve that public to understand the complexities of that community, which might be quite different than a Korean individual or a Korean family, or a Guyanan, who I have just heard speak, or a Dominican. They really do have differences. The extent to which we can represent those new Americans clearly, I think, is important, and I hope my Assemblyman doesn't say anything about this since he's sitting right behind you. But the other piece, the complexity, though, is that Queens is a rush of things, and we were just talking about the difference in looking at something that we really thought was mostly Russian immigrants, and when we went to sort of survey those students they were now Mexican. And the flux of the immigrants' pressure in Queens and, also, this wonderful ability -- and I hope LaGuardia Community College is a part of that -- for individuals to come in and really become part of the American dream. So you start out in one place and then you're successful. Your business is successful, your kids get educated, you get to move up, and there is a real flux of that. So I think one of the real complex issues in Queens is how to represent who is there now and how to do that in the future, and I know that's a tough thing. And I actually think smaller districts would allow you to do that, knowing that if your goal was to find the voice of a specific immigrant community, that might change and it might change faster than where I grew up in Buffalo. I lived in the Irish-Polish community, and it was Irish-Polish when I was there and it still is when I go back. So it really depends, I think, on your intentionality there. But if it is to represent the complexity of those needs and that community, then I would absolutely say smaller and within the confines of Queens County to have sort of more compact districts that would allow a person in public service to really represent that complexity value. SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you, Doctor. DR. MELLOW: Thank you. ASSEMBLYMAN PARMENT: The next person is Tara Singh. Is Tara here? Connie Savvides? MR. GIRDHARI: I'm here because Tara Singh is working and would like to read his testimony. Good afternoon, everyone. Distinguished ladies and gentlemen of New York State Redistricting Task Force. This is the testimony of Tara Singh of the Guyana Youth and Ed Ahmad of the New Concept Democratic Club. Thanks for allowing us to testify before the New York State Task Force on Redistricting. My name is not Tara Singh -- he's at work -- President of a community-based organization called Guyana Youth Corp, whose mission is -- SENATOR SKELOS: Can I ask you one question, sir? She indicated that she signed in. We see that she did register? MR. GIRDHARI: He. SENATOR SKELOS: I'm sorry. He did register. MR. GIRDHARI: Somebody did for him. May I continue? SENATOR SKELOS: Sure. MR. GIRDHARI: My name is Gary Girdhari. We are well-known within our community and beyond. The New York Newsday and The Daily News, as well as the Indo-Caribbean ethnic media, have carried many stories of our accomplishments and mission. Like my colleague, Ed Ahmad, we also seek to empower our community. And my name is Ed Ahmad. I am the President of the Queens-based New York New Concept Democratic Club, which strives to secure political representation for our people at all levels of government, as well as, empower them at the economic level. In my capacity as a community leader, I have received many citations for community and charitable services from prominent organizations, including Congressman Gregory Meeks and Public Advocate Mark Green. The Daily News and New York Newsday have carried stories of my community work. Together, our experience of the Indo-Caribbean community is substantial, having worked, held seminars, conducted researches, implemented various community projects, and provided leadership on critical issues, such as the so-called "illegal conversions" and census undercount of our population. Thus, we believe that we are qualified enough to speak on behalf of our community. The Census 2000 figures have just been released. Though the City has reached the eight million mark for the first time in its history, and non-white groups have progressively increased in size of their majority, these statistics do not flatter us. The Indo-Caribbean people are still heavily undercounted. Despite fervent attempts by the Census Bureau to reach us in the Census 2000, their efforts had been thwarted by the zealous action of City Building officials who thought it prudent to begin a crackdown on the so-called illegal conversions at the same time. We protested and protested, but hardly anyone listened to us. We understood then we did not have any political clout, so we didn't expect any significant redress from the differential enforcement of the City's Building Code. Our community suffered disproportionately by this heavy hand of the law. As you know, most of the housing violations between 1997 and 2000 were handed out to Indo-Caribbeans who reside in Community District 9 and 10 in Queens. That untimely crackdown occurred when the Census Bureau was trying to woo our people to embrace Census 2000. We were beginning to walk on that path, until the City Building Department caused us to detour. The City enforcement activities severely undermined the notion of census confidentiality and public trust. Even the more educated among us expressed skepticism about the process. We knew all along, therefore, that the Indo-Caribbean population figures would be distorted. We had publicly expressed this misgiving at a Census Bureau meeting at LaGuardia Community College in early 2000. We had also discussed it with the Census Bureau Regional Director, but he could not interfere with the City's policies, although that practice was directly linked to census participation. Even the Immigration and Naturalization Service, which is notorious for carrying out sweeps on illegal immigrants at such times, had given the assurance that they will observe census confidentiality laws. We believe that Census 2000 might have not accounted for over 25 percent of the Indo-Caribbean people. The point we are making here, however, is that a scrutiny of Census 2000 figures will not reflect the full strength of our community of interests. Just visit John Adams High School, or Richmond Hill High School, or Hillcrest High School, or P.S. 226, and you will immediately get a wider picture. Or, take a walk along Liberty Avenue from Lefferts Boulevard to 128th Street and you will notice that seven in every 10 persons who pass by are Indo-Caribbeans. Travel through any street in Richmond Hill and most areas of South Ozone Park, and the Indo-Caribbean presence will become inescapable. Indo-Caribbeans have come to the United States from the Caribbean on a second wave of immigration. Their fore-parents had come from India, the first wave, as indentured laborers to work on sugar plantations. More than two-thirds of them did not return to India but decided, instead, to remain in the Caribbean with the promise of land in lieu of return passages. Their contribution to those Caribbean societies is well-documented, but their shared community of interests have been assailed by non-Indian politicians, who use various tactics to fragment their communal support. This form of political repression, combined with slumping economies in the 1960s, forced many Indo-Caribbeans to seek their fortunes in Europe and then the United States. The liberalization of United States immigration laws facilitated this flow from the Caribbean and it has continued unabated since then. We estimate that over 150,000 Indo-Caribbeans live in New York City -- the New York City Comptroller's estimate is higher -- and the highest density is in the Richmond Hill/South Ozone Park areas. Since the early 1960s Indo-Caribbeans have been settling down in Richmond Hill and expanding into adjacent areas. In the process they have begun to rebuild an Indo-Caribbean community. We have reclaimed formerly run-down neighborhoods within the City and revitalized these. We have also helped modernize our communities' housing stock and substantially increased their value. We have given the local economy a jolt. We work and serve in every sector of the local, as well as the wider community. Although we have not been doing particularly well at college, Census 2000 figures will show a marked improvement. We come from a culture that highly values education, and we are working hard to reestablish this value as our No. 1 priority. Religion continues to play a central role in helping to shape our social organizations. Today we have built over 50 madirs -- that is, Hindu churches -- three mosques -- Muslim churches -- and are active in a number of Christian churches. And certain traditional values persist within our community. On Liberty Avenue and elsewhere, for example, we have established shops that cater primarily to Indo-Caribbean tastes in clothing, jewelry, cultural and religious products. We maintain strong links with our home countries, just as how our Jewish brothers and sisters maintain their links with Israel, or Puerto Ricans maintain their ties with Puerto Rico. Indeed, Richmond Hill is called "Little Guyana." Our community will continue to grow and get stronger with the influx of more Indo-Caribbean immigrants. We have built a viable community here in New York City and this must not be weakened by the drawing of political boundary lines that do not reflect our shared community of interests. Our community of Richmond Hill and South Ozone Park must be held together to allow for their continued economic and cultural growth. Despite our numeric strength, we do not have any form of political representation at this time. We have been working to push Indo-Caribbeans to apply for U.S. citizenship. We are ranked among the top four immigrant countries seeking citizenship in New York City. We are also working on voter registration. We still have more work to be done in this area. We believe that over 50 percent of eligible Indo-Caribbeans might not be registered as yet. But we have to continue with our work in this and other areas. Despite the fact that we do not receive any kind of help for our community's social and cultural programs from government, or from charitable foundations, we have still been able to make solid progress. We know enough of the system now, so that we can participate in government at all levels. A number of our people are running for City Council seats, but the current district lines distort their community of interests and weaken their chances of election. We urge you, therefore, to redraw boundaries that will preserve our community of interests, our traditions, and our common history. Richmond Hill and South Ozone Park must not be divided into different voting districts. Tara Singh, President, Guyana Youth Corp; Ed Ahmad, New Concept Democratic Club. Thank you. SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you very much. Connie? MS. SAVVIDES: Good afternoon. My name is Connie Savvides, but I am here to speak on behalf of a couple of doctors of Mt. Sinai Hospital, Queens. And this one is for Florentia Christodoulidou. My name is Florentia Christodoulidou. I am a physician at the Mt. Sinai Hospital of Queens -- formerly known as Western Queens Community Hospital and Astoria General Hospital. The Mt. Sinai Hospital of Queens is affiliated with Mt. Sinai Hospital. Both institutions are located in the 14th Congressional District of New York. In my opinion, residents of Western Queens reap great benefits from being in a district that incorporates both the East Side of Manhattan and Western Queens. Those of us who work in the hospital industry have shared interests and shared concern, particularly when it comes to the Federal programs that fund or regulate our industry. It benefits all of us to have one representative who truly understands our interests. I believe that there is a natural link between the medical community here and that of Manhattan's East Side. In addition to the fact that our hospitals are owned by a consortium of hospitals that are located on the East Side, our patients often seek specialized care from hospitals in Manhattan. I know that Congresswoman Maloney pays careful attention to the needs of all of the hospitals in her district, including Mt. Sinai Hospital of Queens. She understands our issues and pays attention to our concerns. She has visited our hospitals on numerous occasions, touring the facility, meeting with doctors, and reading to children at the clinic. We benefit by having a member who truly cares about all the hospitals in her district. Thank you. SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you, ma'am. Alice Cardona? MS. CARDONA: As Yogi Berra said, it's deja vu all over again. Been here, done that, 10 years ago in 1991. What I decided to do was to present to you the paper that I read at that time. This is the Coalition for Latino Councilmanic Districts in Queens and it is submitted by me, Alice Cardona. We want to thank Allen Gartner for helping us to unite and create the Coalition for Latino Councilmanic Districts in Queens. You see, it was your statement about the Latinos in Queens which stirred the waters. The statement that there were 381,000 Hispanics living in Queens but that they were so dispersed that they could not map out a Latino district in Queens caused us at the Queens Hispanic Political Action Committee to question your assumption and your data. You can ask anyone living in Queens and they will tell you where you can find us. The answer will come back to you, they are all over the place, but in Jackson Heights, Corona and Elmhurst is where they are concentrated. We called for a meeting of Latino organizations who are working on redistricting. We met with the representatives of the New York City Latino Districting Committee, the Puerto Rican Legal Defense Education Fund. Lo and behold we drew two Latino councilmanic district maps. We found that within the census tracts of Jackson Heights-Corona-Elmhurst areas, there were 210,000 Latinos out of 381,000 living in Queens, that there was in Long Island City a potential for a Latino-influenced district. We then drew two maps -- Jackson Heights-Corona-East Elmhurst District and a Long Island City District. The Puerto Rican Legal Defense Education Fund presented these maps to you. We came and testified at the public hearing on May 9th and supported the Puerto Rican Legal Defense and Education Fund map. On May 16th you drew a map and for the first time acknowledged that there is a Latino councilmanic district in Queens, although we do not agree with your lines and insist that the Puerto Rican Legal Defense Education Fund map is the one we support. I have attended several city-wide meetings on the people of color who are looking at the city as a whole and reviewing the districting process. I have also been at the Puerto Rican Legal Defense Education Fund meetings which are concentrating on Latino districts and there have bee many discussions with individuals from other boroughs, including some of the district commissioners on this panel. I have shown them where they are, very clear lines of Latinos living in Queens, and where we had to reduce the numbers to get them down to 140,000. Somos mas -- we are more -- that is our response to you. We know where we live. Draw the lines so that we can indeed have a Latino voice with the vote in Queens. Never again do we want to hear the politicians in Queens who keep saying to us you don't vote so you don't count. We know how to count and the question is do you? I want to bring to you a couple of questions that I think you've asked before, and I've been thinking in listening since I've been here early this morning. The question about the Common Cause and the League of Women Voters and all those good citizenship people, I would love for you to count how many of them are minorities, because that's my response to you and to them. And they're good people, but I think they have the wrong attitude. This is a new America, this is a new city, and we need to look at that. I know for a fact that we're going to have an additional district added to Queens. It has to be, the numbers are there and the numbers prove that. But where is it going to be, and who is going to be satisfied by that new district? That's the question. And that's where the Puerto Rican Legal Defense Education Fund -- and as a member of the Latino Policy Network, which is part of the Institute for Puerto Rican Policy -- we will also be helping you and guiding hopefully you on how to do that and to do it so that there is equity for everyone. And I brought with me -- I'm not going to give it all to you because I can't make 10 copies of it -- but this was the package that I submitted to the Civil Rights Office in 1991, with all the lines that were being drawn and so forth. This is, as you all know, the Civil Rights 1965 Law. Queens was not included. You know that and I know that. But if this law was to be written again Queens would definitely be included because there's a lot of inequity in how we draw our lines. I only remind you of this because I hope that we don't have to go back and struggle for 10 or 20 years to try to get the Civil Rights laws to be amended, so that there could be equal representation. This is not a question of just ethnicity. This is a question of people who should be represented in the Assembly, in the Senate and in Congress. I don't like the fact that we don't have a true congressman, that Queens is split up among the Bronx, Brooklyn, Manhattan and all the other areas, but I understand that we need to look at that again and say let's get a true representative for our Congressional District and that that representative would be representing all the people within that district, and the issues that are of concern to all of us. I'm not criticizing anyone, Senator or Congressperson, or even Assembly, or even, I would even say to you, even councilmanic districts. It's the question of equity. That's what it is. And I want to thank you for listening to me. SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you, ma'am. Thomas Dennehy? MR. DENNEHY: I am known as the "mayor" of Richmond Hill, Queens. That's who I am. We used to have a mayor in Richmond Hill, as a matter of fact. I 1898 the City merged and that was the end of the mayor of Richmond Hill. Now, my story was real close. Tomorrow is June 2nd. On this day, June 2nd, 1923, the Native Americans were granted citizenship, which allowed them to vote. I think we have just about two million Native Americans. No one ever mentions them, speaks about them, and they do vote, and I don't think any of their representatives are here in the room. Also, we have in Queens County -- I don't go for this borough baloney. It's county. There's 63 counties in the State of New York, and this is Queens County, like it or not, and we have 14 Council seats in Queens County. They should be coterminous with the 14 Community Boards in Queens County and our 14 sanitation districts in Queens County. That would be coterminous. We can get the Council seats in line with the Community Board seats and with the sanitation districts. Then we can work our way up. These folks here can take care of the Assembly and the Senate, I'm not into that. I want to see the City Council get coterminous with the sanitation and the Community Boards or abolish the Community Boards and save our tax dollars. Thank you very much. SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you. Questions? We're going to take a five-minute break and we'll come right back. (Recess) SENATOR SKELOS: We're going to re-start the hearing. Our next speaker is Malcolm Smith, then Norman Chan, and then we will go through the whole list of the people's names that were signed up earlier and see if any of you are here. SENATOR SMITH: Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and to your Co-Chair, Assemblyman Parment, and to my colleague, Senator Dollinger, and the other panelists. First, let me thank you for making the quick adjustment. I apologize to any of those who were to speak at this moment, but I took -- I asked for a little privilege so that I could provide some information and some -- what I think is some insight, and be able to move on to some other things. As you know, my district is not too far from here, and being that we're only down a couple of days a week, they press us for our time, and you know how that works. Let me first start out by thank you, also, for being here and taking the time to listen to the testimony this morning from many individuals. I saw quite a few individuals on the list that I was familiar with. I have a particular concern as it relates to the LAT-4 and having someone of color, or some ethnic diversity on the panel. As you know, and as we know, here in the City of New York ethnic diversification is not only the state of affairs today but is actually a plus for our society. And given the fact that we are living in such a time where the minority population -- and I lose that loosely because there really is no minority population here in the City of New York as relates to -- or which is the largest minority population, whether it's black, Hispanic, Asian, East Indian -- the fact remains that a panel such as this -- and as I stand before -- has no representation and shows no representation for that particular population. As it relates to the senior staff, I would hope that you would try to, if you do not already have senior staff in LAT-4 that reflects the ethnic diversity of the City of New York, one in which I know that you are very familiar with. The other concerns that I'd like to raise -- and I hope that you would take this under advisement -- is the public education and access to data around the reapportionment. I have had many people in my district -- and I'm sure you may have heard some testimony today -- that the lack of information being available to individuals to provide coherent and succinct testimony around their lines is something that's been very difficult. I myself have access to the DeBoise Bunch (phonetic) and I have access to other information that we get as privileged members of the Senate. However, there are a number of individuals who are in the public and in the community that are looking for this information and do not see it. The concern I raise there is only because, as you know, there is a lot of cynicism around us as elected officials in terms of us holding onto information and not sharing it with the public, and there is a great concern, from my standpoint, as to the access of information and providing it. I think the data that we should provide as relates to public access to this -- and I guess that's the TIGA Line Files of Public Law 94-171 data -- is important to have available to the public. Whether or not they are familiar with that or not, I believe we have an onus on us to do so. The other concern I have is the process itself. Now, I'm not too sure if you are going to have more than one round of public hearings, but clearly, once the preliminary lines are drawn, or at least those that you choose to put in place based on these preliminary hearings, needs to go back to the public, needs to provide some access to them so they can have input as to how these lines impact on their neighborhoods. And while there is some school of thought as relates to communities being designed by ethnic backgrounds and how sometimes that may be the wrong attitude to have at this point, there is a great deal of community interest around some of the lines -- or we hope there will be a lot of community interest -- around the lines that are proposed. In my particular area of Southeast Queens the Congressional District is represented by Congressman Gregory Meeks. We believe that that particular district is succinct and compact enough with community of interest the way it is designed. We also believe that there should be two Senate seats within that. If I understand the Senate lines as they are to be proposed, they should be somewhere around 311,000 or so, and that means that the Congressional District of Gregory Meeks can wholly have two solid Senate seats within that district. There is also some belief that there's a potential for a Senate seat -- another Senate seat -- out in the Nassau area. There's a growing population out there. Some is adjacent to my district, where I stop. There is a potential for another Senate District out in that area of Long Island. Within the 10th Senatorial District, that I represent, which covers St. Albans, Rosedale, Laurelton, Far Rockaway -- I cover the entire Far Rockaway peninsula -- Queens Village, Cambria Heights, we also believe, based on the population influx in our area that there's a potential for another Assembly seat, as well. It is our belief that these particular districts that are represented clearly had an increase in population. There has been close to 2,000 units of housing built in the area. The average population of individuals that reside in these homes are two to three individuals. All the statistics bear it out that in Southeast Queens there should be at least two Senate Districts, another district in addition to mine, which can be wholly within the 6th Congressional District, which, therefore, bears out the potential for another Assembly District, as well. We are an area, in Southeast Queens, that clearly fits the prerequisite of community of interest. That entire area basically has the community of interest as it relates to the educational needs, housing, health care, social service needs. There are clearly a succinct population over there representing Jewish communities, Hispanics, Asian, African-American, and we are very pleased with that. What we do believe is that we can have another Senate seat within that 6th Congressional District, as well as another Assembly seat. My primary concern, as relates to today, is the one that I initiated in my earlier comments and that is, while I respect each and every one of the persons sitting on this panel, I respect your intellect, your wisdom, your concern for individuals as relates to this process, is that it is very disheartening that it does not reflect the ethnic makeup of the State. While we may have areas from Albany on up that reflect the basic population that sits before me, clearly, anything from the City of New York would mean that there needs to be an ethnic representation, whether it is Asian, Hispanic, African-American. And the fact that I don't see that is very disheartening. I would hope -- and I echo my comments earlier -- that at least on the senior staff level of LAT-4 that you will make sure that that particular -- what I consider a shortfall -- is taken care of. SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. Smith, if I can just comment on that. I would love to point out to you that our conference, the Republican Conference, had run people of color but their constituents have chosen not to elect them. Certainly Senator Connor, your minority leader, has the opportunity to appoint an elected official as a member of this task force, which is presently Senator Dollinger. If he would like to replace him with you, or perhaps more senior people, like Senator Paterson, Senator Mendez, Senator Aida Smith -- and I could go on and on -- he certainly has the privilege to do that at any time. So I think that's perhaps something you should take up with Senator Connor. SENATOR SMITH: Right. And Dean Skelos, I agree with you wholeheartedly. However, what I'm appealing to is just your own sense of right and wrong. It has nothing to do with a particular conference, and I think that's where some of our shortcomings are. We get into this Democrat-Republican sort of belabor all the time, and my concern is, as I look around here, I think everybody in this particular hall has the same interest. They all want decent education for their children, they all want decent housing, they all want a place where they can live safely, walk in the streets at night, and I don't think that comes down to a Democrat or Republican issue. SENATOR SKELOS: It doesn't come down to it, but each of the four conferences are represented on this task force, elected officials. And, as I mentioned, in terms of the Senate Republican Majority Conference, despite efforts to elect individuals, we have not been successful. So, if you eliminate our conference then we have to look at your conference, and Senator Connor -- SENATOR SMITH: Well, actually, I had the Republican and Democratic endorsement, so I kind of pass both sides. SENATOR SKELOS: Senator Connor would be delighted, I'm sure, to appoint you, or Senator Mendez, or Senator Paterson, who's the very capable deputy minority leader, and I could go on throughout your conference, in terms of replacing Senator Dollinger. And I think Senator Dollinger should take the lead on that and suggest it. SENATOR SMITH: Well, let me just say this on behalf of Senator Dollinger. If I had to have anybody representing my interests it would be Senator Dollinger. What I am saying to you is, is as you look around this State and this City it is clear that ethnic diversity is the state of affairs as of today. So I'm only talking about making the complexion of the panel what the complexion of the State of New York is. And if the bodies in their own respective realms choose to select an individual who can represent them well based on their intellectual capacity, that's okay, too. But I would think that the panel itself would want to look like the entire State of New York and not look like a percentage of it. ASSEMBLYMAN ORTLOFF: I'm going to take you up on your sentiment. I'm preparing a letter, which I will be sending to Senator Connor and Speaker Silver, on Monday asking them, as the leaders of the only two conferences which currently have members of the Legislator of color, to respond to your concern, and I invite you to join me in signing that letter. SENATOR SMITH: Absolutely. ASSEMBLYMAN ORTLOFF: In the past we have had Assemblyman Angelo Del Toro -- the late Assemblyman Del Toro -- was the Assembly Majority Member of this task force. Senator Seabrook, then Assemblyman Seabrook, was the Assembly member of the Task Force, and Mr. Parment's immediate predecessor, Assemblyman David Gantt. So the precedent is clearly there. And I would like to re-emphasize Senator Skelos' remarks. You make a very valid point that you don't think this should be a Democrat-Republican issue. But, as a matter of fact, the Republican Party has attempted numerous times to elect members of the Senate and the Assembly who are people of color, and by strange coincidence, in every case the Democratic Party has rallied around and opposed those people -- and succeeded, I might say, much to my chagrin -- because I believe you are quite correct. This is a state of ethnic diversity and both political parties seek that. So your point is partially well-taken, but I would dispute your point that we can do anything about it. So, if you'd join me on Monday of next week in signing that letter to Senator Connor and Speaker Silver, I would be delighted to have your signature on it. SENATOR SKELOS: I just want to point out that what we're working out with the districts, it has from 1994 Senator Dean Skelos and Assemblyman Larry Seabrook. So, in the last redistricting process that did exist. ASSEMBLYMAN PARMENT: Senator, you know, I was born white and I can't help that, but I can assure you that it's my intention to do the right thing. SENATOR SMITH: And I would hope that, and if anyone takes my comments regarding the need for ethnic diversification as a challenge to your complexion and your interest in what you plan to do, don't take it that way. The bottom line is, I consider you no smarter than I am. I consider you no smarter than this young lady sitting right here. However, it is always a comforting feeling when one walks into a room to see someone that looks like you. And I don't mean someone that looks like you in terms of eyes and ears. And that's not a racial statement; that's just human nature. We're talking about drawing lines for individuals that are sitting here that are looking for representation and they just would like to know that there was someone up here -- I don't see a Diaz, I don't see a Rubin Diaz, I don't see a Smith here -- just happens to be my last name. But the bottom line is it would be nice. And that's not to say -- like I said before, Senator Dollinger is a good friend of mine. There is no doubt in my mind that he will make the right decisions, has the intellectual capacity, has the legal scholarship, to do what has to be done to represent interests of the Hispanic community, the black community, the Asian community. But the bottom line still says to me I would like to see someone of color sitting at this table, or at least someone that represents what I believe is an interest of an ethnic diversity sitting here at this table and I don't see it. SENATOR SKELOS: Any other questions? SENATOR DOLLINGER: Just a couple of other things. One, Senator, in your community, you talked about the access to the data. Do you have a sense that there are community groups in your Senate District, or elsewhere in Queens, that will draw and submit plans to this Reapportionment Task Force if they get access to all the data that you talked about -- the Federal data, the TIGA files and the other data necessary to do it. SENATOR SMITH: Yes, absolutely. Part of why I asked about having more than just this hearing -- and I'm assuming you're going to have more than one round of hearings, maybe you'll have several, based on the recommendations -- was because there are many groups that have come to my office and have asked for that kind of data so they can sit down and put some things together, some of which have been from your colleagues, and other institutions of learning that want to be a part of this process and, unfortunately, they don't have that information. So, if we can provide that to them, at least it would give them the ability to draw those lines and have some input. This is an open process. At least that's what the law proscribes it to be. So, therefore, as opposed to coming up and just providing testimony about sometimes emotional interests and others factual, it would be good that they would be able to come forward and present their concerns that relate to the lines, at least after the preliminary lines are drawn, from the LAT-4 panel. SENATOR DOLLINGER: The other thing I just want to mention is you talked about the importance of diversity. One of the things that this task force has to do is recommend to the Legislature a reapportionment plan that will reflect that diversity of this state, in all of its many faces and all of its many viewpoints. You mentioned earlier in the Southeast Queens area, and elsewhere in Queens, to create compact districts and to create contiguous districts. I assume you also meant that those districts would be majority/minority districts, in the sense that they would give an opportunity for people of color across the entire spectrum of -- whether, as you've heard earlier today, that we've talked about Indo-Caribbeans, we've talked about the Indian and Pakistani population, we've talked about the different ethnic Asian populations. But you're talking about in essence giving those communities opportunities in either a Senate or an Assembly District, or perhaps even in a Congressional District, which, as you know, is a much larger population. But, nonetheless, you're talking about creating compact districts, communities of interests, in which there is an opportunity for the election of minority representatives, is that correct? SENATOR SMITH: That is correct. SENATOR DOLLINGER: That's how we get to the basis of final diversity is by electing -- doing that here with these lines, to some extent, as you know, given Constitutional and Federal legislative constraints on us, and that's the way we pave the way to a New York State in which its government looks like its people. SENATOR SMITH: Thank you very much. SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you. Norman Chan. Thank you for your patience. MR. CHAN: Hello, everyone. First of all, I would like to thank you all for allowing me the opportunity to speak in front of everyone today and to let me give brief testimony about something. I'm here today as a concerned citizen. I have no affiliation with any groups or anything. I'm just a college student who's out of school right now. According to the Census of 2000, Asians are the fastest-growing demographic in Queens. The area of Flushing itself has the largest concentration of Asians in New York State and, yet, coincidentally, there have been no Asians that have been elected to the State Assembly from this area. The primary reason the Voting Rights Act was passed was to protect the voting rights of every citizen that was eligible to vote. This act was also a remedy designed in order to prevent selective racial discrimination. I propose that splitting people of common beliefs and cultures into different districts serves to diminish their voice in the political community and is a de facto form of discrimination. We must ensure that this doesn't happen. My primary concerns relate to the realignment of the State Assembly Districts in the Borough of Queens and the effect it may have on the Asian American community. In recent years some of the district realignments that have taken place in the City demonstrate that many of the new boundaries that were drawn made absolutely no sense at all and divided closeknit neighborhoods into different assembly districts. This form of political disregard for those that live in these communities demonstrates the need for greater scrutiny when redrawing these intangible but yet important lines that signify the borders of these districts within our city. One of the most important aspects of having a democratic government is the ability for the people to voice their concerns in a strong, coordinated, and unified manner. Members of communities with common principles and beliefs deserve the right to be represented in a common group. In general, this means that the character and composition of a district should be homogenous in order to ensure that the will of the people is accurately reflected. The character of a district is defined by common interests, be they a common culture, food, language, values, or race. Legislative representatives should also understand the culture and values of the people they represent. The best way to ensure this is to have cohesive and compact districts of similar demographic compositions. The Legislature needs to ensure that the voting rights and representation of the Asian community is protected and not abridged or overlooked during the shuffle of district realignment and that their diverse needs are taken care of as well. Thank you very much. SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you. Are there any questions? ASSEMBLYMAN ORTLOFF: One question. Do you live in the 25th Assembly District? MR. CHAN: No, I'm actually a resident of Forest Hills. I forgot what district that is. ASSEMBLYMAN ORTLOFF: What is your particular interest in Flushing? MR. CHAN: Well, it's a community that I have a lot of friends and family in, and everything, and I grew up there when I was a lot younger, also. ASSEMBLYMAN ORTLOFF: You're quite correct, at least as far as I can see, that Flushing has the highest concentration of Asian Americans. In fact, the current 25th Assembly District has about almost 70,000, or 49.8 percent Asian. That district is also currently about 13,000 bigger, so it has to lose some people. Would it be your recommendation that this task force attempt to find those 13,000 that must be taken away among the non-Asian community, thus increasing the percentage of Asians? MR. CHAN: Well, I'm not well-versed in the exact way you guys define your districts, or whatever, but I would just like you guys to keep consideration of the need for a district that is cohesive and for a lot of members of the same type of culture or background, and stuff like that. I mean, I don't know how you're going to draw the lines. I don't have the statistics or anything, but what I'm basically saying is that it would be a good idea if you guys keep this in mind as you're going over this in the near future or anything. ASSEMBLYMAN ORTLOFF: Well, I thank you for calling our attention to it. I think that's a very worthy goal. MR. CHAN: Thank you. SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you very much. We're going to run through the list. Bishop Nerbada Persaud? Dr. Taj Rajkumar. Welcome. DR. RAJKUMAR: Thank you. Honorable members of the Task Force. I am here to speak on behalf of Asian Americans, especially the Americans from India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Guyana, Trinidad and the Caribbean Islands. I want to draw your attention to the mistake that was made when the boundaries were drawn the last time. The majority of the Indo-Americans in Queens, they live in Richmond Hill, South Ozone, Ozone Park, or Woodhaven. This region has a population of more than 125,000, and yet we do not have an elected representative who can speak on issues on our behalf. Why does this situation exist? A deliberate strategy, in my opinion, was made to divide this region into several legislative districts that are represented by non-Asians. For example, parts of our region are in City Council Districts 28 and 32, State Senate Districts 10 and 15, Assembly Districts 23, 31 and 32, and Congressional District 6. What does this situation tell you? We are not in the majority in any one of these districts, so it is very difficult for an Indo-Caribbean candidate to win a seat at the City, State or even the Federal level. And this is what we have to reverse. It is important to change the perception that deliberate efforts are made to exclude Asian Americans from participating in the political process in our vibrant and dynamic democracy. Indo-Americans want a strong political voice. We need effective political representation that will ensure we have at least one health clinic, one community center, one day care center, one senior center, and even one job-training center in Richmond Hill, in Ozone Park, in South Ozone, and Woodhaven area. Honorable Members of the Task Force, Indo-Americans live in Richmond Hill, South Ozone, Ozone, Woodhaven, parts of Briarwood, Hollis, Bellerose, Floral Park, Queens Village, and Jamaica. We have the population for a City Council seat. We have the population for a State Senate or an Assembly seat. I have -- and I ran for the Assembly last year against Pauline Cummings. I won in all the Indian areas. Only it was the first time I was running and there was a very interesting article in The New York Times and the New York Newsday -- September 6th New York Times -- that will explain the political process and how difficult it is for an Indian to win an election in New York City in Southeast Queens. I know we cannot respond to the speakers' comments, and I would have loved to respond to the Senator's comments. He covers part of my district. There is so much talk about additional Assembly seats, State Senate seats, not Congressional seats, but State Senate and Assembly and Council, but nobody's talking about additional seats for the Indians. The Senator talked about two additional Assembly seats in areas that are predominantly Afro-Americans. That's fine, but what about Indians? What about the Chinese? We need representation, and we can -- people want us to win. People are supporting us. Our people want us to represent them. Nobody's listening to them. Nobody's addressing their needs and their concerns. We have to reverse this situation. I would be very happy to submit a draft of the boundaries I think that will help our cause. We can have the first Indo-American representative in office in New York only if you take the measures to change the current boundaries that exclude our people from participating in the political process. Then and only then we can have a leader. We're not asking much. An Assembly seat would be sufficient at this point in history. We want our voices to be heard. We do not want to be left behind, and we will not. The Asian American giant is finally awake. We're here to stay. We want to work with you and be part of the political process, and reflect our government in New York State. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you. Any questions? ASSEMBLYMAN ORTLOFF: How many votes did you get last fall? DR. RAJKUMAR: I got 27 percent of the vote. Let me explain what happened. Pauline -- I ran against Pauline. Pauline represents Far Rockaway, Springfield, Rosedale, which are predominantly Afro-American, Afro-Caribbean areas. She also has a part of Richmond Hill, about 10 blocks in Richmond Hill. I had about -- As I said earlier, I had the majority vote in all Indian communities. I even got 51 percent of my votes from her strong area in Far Rockaway, in Springfield and Rosedale. So we're not only talking about people wanting an Indian to represent them. Not only Indians want Indians to represent them, we're talking about the African people who also want other ethnic groups to represent them. That's one lesson I've learned from my campaign. And as I prepare for next year's election I'll keep on talking about these same issues. But what would really help us is if this task force carefully considers our request and our plan for an Assembly seat. That would be very, very helpful, and it would be very encouraging. It will be very motivating, very stimulating, to see an Indian or a Chinese, or Filipino, to see one of us in office. It was just like it will be a brand new day. ASSEMBLYMAN ORTLOFF: If I could just ask you one final question. Would you submit that plan to the Task Force at your earliest convenience so we may early examine it? DR. RAJKUMAR: Certainly will do that, sir. I appreciate it. ASSEMBLYMAN ORTLOFF: Thank you. SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you very much. Chris Strunk? Nydia Martinez? MS. MARTINEZ: Hello. My name is Nydia Martinez, and I am the President of the Marine Terrace Tenants Association in Astoria, Queens. As President of the Marine Terrace Tenants Association I represent the residents of Marine Terrace housing development in Astoria, Queens. Approximately one year ago, the management of Marine Terrace announced plans to opt out of their Section 8 affordable housing contract with the United States Department of Housing and Urban Development. Congresswoman Maloney, who represents us in Washington, immediately came to our aid to facilitate a contract renewal between HUD and Marine Terrace management. Congresswoman Maloney asked both parties to use a HUD program she helped pass in the 106th Congress called the "Mark-Up-To-Market" initiative and, as a result of the program and successful negotiations, a agreement was reached this April for an unprecedented 10-year contract extension that preserves Marine Terrace as an affordable housing development. I share this story not only to illustrate the effective work Congresswoman Maloney has done for the people of her district, but, also, to suggest why the 14th Congressional District is well-drawn to serve the needs of New York residents in Queens and Manhattan. The 14th Congressional District includes a number of similar housing developments in both Queens and Manhattan that continue to experience similar predicaments. Our strength has been that we share the same congressional district and, as a result, I believe we have the benefit of a member of Congress who understands the intricacies of our issues and works effectively on the important concerns that we share collectively. Based on her successful efforts to facilitate new Section 8 housing contracts at two developments in Manhattan, for example, Congresswoman Maloney's actions to preserve our housing in Queens made it possible to attain an unprecedented 10-year Section 8 contract extension for Marine Terrace. In closing, I would like to present this Task Force with a petition signed by numerous residents at Marine Terrace urging that the 14th Congressional District continue to include our region in Astoria, Queens. Thank you. SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you. Questions? Robert Curran? Alan Friedman? MR. FRIEDMAN: Thank you for this opportunity to testify. I'd like to testify, particularly thinking of Congressional Districts, on the importance of stability of representation, rather than the somewhat abstractions of compactness and uniformity of voting blocks. Particularly at the Federal level because of the complexity of the Federal Governmet and its power, there is a lot to be said for simply maintaining stability, in particular Nita Lowey's Congressional District. I'd like to give you an example of how the long-term process of building community relationships that work depends on continuity of representation by leaders like Nita Lowey. I'm the Director of the New York Hall of Science. It's a hands-on science museum, it's located in Corona, Queens. We physically serve about 280,000 people a year who visit us, and well over a million who use our internet site and our distance learning facilities. Mostly these are children, families and teachers. Mostly they are minorities and first-generation Americans. And it's our job to get science and technology to these communities, which, as you may know, are dramatically underrepresented in both jobs and training in science and technology. Three percent of America's scientists are African-American, for example, less than 3 percent are Hispanic. So, if we're looking to improve opportunity and representation in science, technology, medicine, and other fields, Queens is a great place to start, as you all know. There's an amazing variety amongst the two million people who live here. There are also amazing opportunities and there are resources. The catch is how do you bring them together. How do you create a program that actually works? So, let me give you a very brief biography of one such program, and it's a program that happened because Congresswoman Lowey has been around so long she saw the opportunity to bring together three rather disparate groups. One is a community primarily of poor and underserved people who lack both academic and English language skills. These are children who are children of working parents who are left on their own between the time school gets out and the time the parents get home from work. Second, a resource. The New York Hall of Science has millions of dollars worth of exhibits on science and technology, and we have begun a little pilot program of offering free afterschool science clubs. It was funded entirely privately. We could accommodate about 20 kids. It was clearly having a huge impact on 20 kids, but we didn't advertise the program because the first day we had flyers out we got 160 applicants for those 20 slots. So there we sat until Nita Lowey came and said, you know, I'm getting requests from my community groups that they need afterschool academic programs in science and technology, you have a program, and did you know there's going to be a new Federal program called 21st Century Learning Centers. None of us knew about the others. None of us knew there were community groups that wanted this. None of us knew there was a new Federal program coming in. And the Federal program didn't know about us because the Federal program was designed solely for schools. Nita, however, put all three of these together. She found a way to -- with some very clever language -- to get some funds from the Federal program to expand our activity 10 times -- we went from 20 to 200 kids -- with Federal funding. The program has been in place now, it has expanded to seven days a week, it's still free. We have families, we have dozens of college students that we hire and train with this money, who act as mentors for the young people. The first of them are now in college that started in the program in '95. So this is a program changing the lives of hundreds of children and their families. It never would have happened without a congressional representative with sufficiently long and keep knowledge of the community to put together the community need, the resource that was already there but underserving, and a new Federal program that hadn't been adapted for this, but that because of her influence within the Congress she could make work. I don't think this is unusual. I think there are lots of stories like this that one can tell you. Right now we're expanding. We're doubling in size. SENATOR SKELOS: Sir, we're trying to keep the testimony within five minutes. MR. FRIEDMAN: I'm on my last paragraph. SENATOR SKELOS: And I know you appreciate the Congresswoman very much, but we would like to have our other speakers, too. MR. FRIEDMAN: Sure. Okay. We're doubling in size. There are at least 250 Federal programs that might support this, and we need a congressperson who can help us navigate it. So, my request for you is that in drawing congressional district lines you take significant heed to the value of maintaining continuity in Queens of people like Nita Lowey, who are also in other counties, who have done an amazing job of serving this community. Thank you. SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you very much. Vishnu Mahadeo? Ruth Zinar? Is Ruth here? Rudy Sarchese? Youngjae Kim? Trevor Rupnarain? Sungkyu Yun. MR. YUN: Hi. My name is Sungkyu Yun. By the way, I have another name, Americanized version, Steve Yun, just in case. My name is Sungkyu Yun and I am the Director of National Korean American Service and Education Consortium -- known as NAKASEC. NAKASEC is an organization that seeks to educate and empower the Korean American community nationwide. Our major program components include immigrant rights advocacy, civil rights campaigns, and civic participation. NAKASEC currently has its offices in Los Angeles, Chicago and, of course, Flushing, New York. My objective in this testimony is to ensure that Asian Americans have enough opportunity to participate in the City's redistricting process and, thereby, to have a meaningful political representation in the future. Tremendous growth of Asian American communities throughout New York City is, of course, well-reflected in the Census 2000. It now reveals that Asian Americans constitute almost 11 percent in the City. That's a spectacular growth of 70 percent since the census of 1990. This growth is especially strong in Queens, where nearly one out of five residents is Asian American. In Queens neighborhoods, such as Flushing, Elmhurst, Jackson Heights, Woodside, and Bayside, the visibility of Asian Americans is even more prominent. Despite a large population presence and its continual growth, no Asian American has ever, ever been elected to a City Council, State Legislative, or Congressional District representing New York City. We obviously think that it is critically important to have political representations that address the need of communities. Previously, Asian American communities throughout New York City have been disenfranchised because our communities have been divided by unfair legislative districts. For example, Flushing, the heart of Korean America in New York -- not only in New York but in America -- is divided among four Senate Districts. Elmhurst, a typical immigrant town with a large Pan Asian neighborhood, has three Assembly Districts. These neighborhoods share very similar socio-economic traits and common needs. In Flushing many residents ride the "7" train to get to work, shop at an ethnic supermarket, read Korean newspapers, and share similar needs in services, such as English language classes or bilingual ballots. We strongly believe that these neighborhoods' political boundaries should not be divided, especially in Flushing, where naturalization and voter registration among new Asian immigrants have been tremendously increased. We also urge the Legislative Task Force to use adjusted census data to redraw districts because many racial and ethnic minorities were not counted in the census. U.S. Census Monitoring Board estimated that more than 200,000 New Yorkers were missed in the census, and many of those 200,000 New Yorkers were people with Asian heritage. The undercount was especially prevalent in our communities in Queens because most of us were recent immigrants and people with limited English proficiency. We urge the Task Force to seek the adjusted census figures from the Census Bureau to determine the undercount and reapportion the districts accordingly. Thank you for this opportunity to present my testimony. Thank you. ASSEMBLYMAN ORTLOFF: May I ask one question? As you look at Queens, from the perspective to which you just testified, if you have already, or if you anticipate prioritizing your political goals, where would electing an Asian representative of the 25th Assembly District fall vis-a-vis some of the other things you've asked about? MR. YUN: Is the 25th District -- ASSEMBLYMAN ORTLOFF: Flushing. MR. YUN: Well, in my opinion and, also, my organization's opinion, it is good to see an Asian American politician representing our district sure, but it really doesn't matter if you're Asian, or if you're African-American, or if you're whatever, as long as the person really represents our community's needs and our community's interests. That's my personal and organizational standpoint. And, obviously, it's very critically important to have someone who really represents the need of the community, whether it might be the 25th District or 7th Congressional District, or may of those Senate Districts in Flushing. Yes, it's critically important, yes. ASSEMBLYMAN ORTLOFF: It looks to me like in Flushing you pretty much have -- the 25th Assembly District pretty much contains the Asian population in Flushing. There may be a few precincts that you could add a few, but with 70,000 Asians in the current 25th Assembly District, I wonder whether your ability to demonstrate political power has any better field of combat than that. MR. YUN: Well, what I would like to see is a more compact and contiguous district -- Senate District, that is. As you said, the 25th Assembly District already contains a huge portion of Asian American voters, but in terms of a Senate District it's all divided up in Flushing. Also, in terms of -- well, in terms of the 7th Congressional District, of course, it contains Flushing as well as many other areas mostly Eastern Queens and some parts of Long Island even. But I would like to see more compact and contiguous districts. And as far as demonstrating our community's ability in terms of our political representation, I guess it's largely up to non-profit community groups, grassroots community groups, like us to organize our community, to make sure that we have someone who really represents our community's interest. ASSEMBLYMAN ORTLOFF: Thank you. SENATOR DOLLINGER: Excuse me. Just one other question. If you would come back, Mr. Yun? I think Assemblyman Parment and I have asked this question a number of times. Do you have evidence of a community-wide voting pattern? The reason why I ask that question is because we've heard a lot of discussion in this very diverse borough about Koreans and Chinese and Indo-Caribbean, and the Indian and Pakistani community, and my question is, do you have evidence that they tend to vote as a block, that they tend to vote in large numbers for the same candidate or the same candidate with the same ethnic identification? And the reason why I ask that question is because, let's say we did create a "Asian" district of some type, it is unlikely that that would be by country of origin that it would all be the same. And so we may end up with a district that you might look at and say, gee, it has an Asian complexion to it, but it's Indi-Pakistani rather than Korean-Chinese. And my question is, do you have any evidence that those Asian populations tend to vote as a block or tend to participate in the same political decision making? MR. YUN: Well, yes. If we are to carve out a district in Flushing, certainly it would contain Koreans, Chinese, Indian-Americans, and so forth, a Pan Asian neighborhood. We have studies done, in fact, based on surveys, based on exit polls, during the previous elections, and while, yes, there is a certain trend and tendencies among Asian American voters according to the poll and exit poll conducted by a very respected organization in New York, yes. I could get you a copy of that. SENATOR DOLLINGER: If you could that would be helpful to us. Thank you. SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you. Council Member John D. Sabini? Gyanda Shirvnarain? MR. SHIRVNARAIN: Greetings. My name is Gyanda Shirvnarain and today I represent the National Hindu Temple Association. This organization represents over 50 mandirs in the New York City area. Among them is a Hindu church. In the 23rd and the 31st Assembly District there are over 21 mandirs. This area has a high concentration of Indo-Caribbean people, Richmond Hill and Ozone Park. The Indo-Caribbean population has been disenfranchised politically. The population has been strategically divided between these two Assembly Districts, thereby neutralizing the potential impact they may have politically. By this division our people have suffered immensely. This has led to voter apathy within our community. Our needs and concerns are unique and different. The current elected representatives aren't concerned about us and never seek our advice or input whenever making these decisions. These are some issues that have affected our community. No. 1: The National Hindu Temple Association holds its annual parade on Liberty Avenue in Richmond Hill to celebrate a coming of spring. This is a cultural celebration. Over 15,000 Indo-Caribbeans participated this year, most coming from Richmond Hill-Ozone Park area. We planned it elaborate, for it would cost over $50,000. Participants were required to preregister and pay an entrance fee. The police were aware of these rules, yet on the day of the parade, instead of helping to enforce these rules they participated in breaking them. The floats that prepaid were, in fact, the last ones to enter the parade, instead of leading, as they should. Also, at the end of the parade, instead of allowing the floats to pack up their equipment -- and this is a safety issue -- the police rushed them. When confronted the police placed their fear on us. The float company indicated that this is the first time they had seen this type of disrespect for a community by the police. This is coming from a company that has done numerous parades weekly. No. 2: In our community we need afterschool programs, community centers, senior centers, cricket fields. In entire Queens there is not one field dedicated for cricket playing, yet there is a proliferation of soccer fields. Cricket is our most popular sport. This is the most popular summer sport in the entire world, yet no attention is being given to it. There are over 300 teams playing in substandard fields. Because of the lack of decent cricket fields, cricket development has stagnated. Cricket is an inherent part of our culture. No. 3. A little while ago the New York State Assembly passed a health care bill creating Family Health Plus. This insurance provides coverage for citizens only. Understandably, we should all become citizens. After acquiring legal status it takes at least seven years to become a citizen, five years' residency waiting and two years for the application process. During the seven years low-income legal residents, who are taxpayers, cannot purchase this insurance. Now, if we had a voice in the Assembly we may not have changed the decision, but at least our voice may be heard. 4. We constantly hear that every child can learn and reach for the stars. Considering this, in the Richmond Hill-Ozone Park area there is a high concentration of the Indo-Caribbean population. Yet, it's not reflected in the hiring practices within the schools in terms of teachers, security guards, janitors, or staff. We have on Indo-Caribbean person in supervisory capacity, no principal, no assistant principal. These are four concerns that have plagued our community over the past decade and more. The National Hindu Temple Association asks that you take them under careful consideration and keep for the very first time together the whole Indo-Caribbean population located in the Richmond Hill-Ozone Park area. By so doing, elected officials, the Queens Democratic Organization, the Queens Republican Organization, will take notice of our community and seek our input. In fact, the Queens Democratic Organization has never interviewed, much less endorsed, an Indo-Caribbean candidate for election. Our candidates were imminently qualified, even more qualified than their opponents. The Queens Republican Organization have, to their credit, endorsed our candidates. Unfortunately, you must be a Democrat within this district in order to have the appearance of a chance to win. Our community is forced to become Democrats. This is not freedom. Our community should have the freedom to choose candidates that cater to our needs and, most importantly, we want to choose freely between Democrats and Republicans. On behalf of the National Hindu Temple Association I thank you for your time. SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you very much. Aida Gonzalez-Jerrin? MS. GONZALEZ-JERRIN: Thank you. Good afternoon. My name is Aida Gonzalez-Jerrin. That's because I want to keep my husband happy. I am a candidate to Council District 21, and the purpose of my testimony is to provide some historical information about Council District 21 and to argue in favor of a redistricting effort that would help to preserve this district and create other districts for Assembly and Council, which will enable Hispanics access to political power at the decision-making level through the electoral process. District 21 encompasses Corona, parts of Jackson Heights, parts of Elmhurst, East Elmhurst, LaGuardia Airport, and Flushing Meadow-Corona Park with its wonderful array of cultural institutions. I have the privilege of working in a previous life with Dr. Alan Friedman, who just submitted testimony here. He is the Director of the New York Hall of Science, one of the 10 best science centers in the United States. Now, in the early 90s a group of Latinos called the Queens Hispanic PAC -- Political Action Committee -- also known as the Queens Hispanic Coalition, constituted by leaders of the Latino community, became an active participant in the redistricting effort of a decade ago. I was a part of that team, as our other activists who have been present here today. This effort was guided to a great extent by the Puerto Rican Legal Defense Fund, an entity which is already playing an important role this year through its Latino Redistricting Committee, of which I am a part. Now, 10 years ago we had a fight to demonstrate the concentrated presence of Latinos in the areas of Elmhurst, Jackson Heights and Corona. We used census tract data and we submitted suggested maps for a district. I have given you a copy of that suggested map in my literature that has been distributed here. We attended many hearings and our case went up to the Supreme Court. As a result of this effort, City Council District 21 was drawn and was acknowledged as the Hispanic district. The final map, however, included East Elmhurst and divided by gerrymandering Jackson Heights and Elmhurst in such a way that the Hispanic presence was actually diluted. This district also came to be known as the "minority" district. Council Member Helen Marshall was elected to represent this district and I should add that she has been a very good representative. Now, 10 years later the population of Queens is 2,229,379 and Hispanics are 25 percent of that population. However, we don't have one single elected official yet, and we don't have one single center in the borough that we can say, you know, this is the Hispanic cultural center or the Latino center for whatever. We just don't have that one institution that could acknowledge our presence and our culture. Now, the Hispanic presence in this District 21 has grown tremendously, as the recent census figures demonstrate. The new Hispanic residents are Dominican, Columbian, Equadorian, Mexican, and other Latino constituents. There is a small but rising Asian presence, and the growth has occurred while the presence of other more traditional communities, such as the Italian American community, the African American community, are diminishing in numbers. They are moving to other parts of the State or to other states, as a recent article in The New York Times indicated. My request to the Task Force is to work hard to maintain the cohesiveness of the Hispanic presence. Of course, you have to take into consideration the inclusiveness of other ethnic groups. I'd like to see District 21 preserved, and I'd like to see the configuration of at least another Assembly District or Council District in which the Hispanic community can build political power. In the last two years we have seen for the first time in Queens serious efforts to capture that power. This is healthy not only for this community, so far unrepresented -- as I have already stated -- but, also, fair and enriching to our democratic system of government. The Latino Redistricting Committee will be submitting suggested maps. We'll be actively participating in the process and the hearings, and following every step of the Legislative Task Force. I understand the challenge that you are facing, and I want to thank you for your work and commitment to this formidable task. Thank you. SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you very much. ASSEMBLYMAN PARMENT: Could I just ask a question? In drawing these lines, would your position be that it's more important to reflect the ethnic nature of the community rather than the old neighborhood descriptions? MS. GONZALEZ-JERRIN: I would agree with that. ASSEMBLYMAN PARMENT: So you wouldn't be adverse to, say, dividing an old place named neighborhood if, in fact, the residents were divided ethnically in that neighborhood. MS. GONZALEZ-JERRIN: Well, what I have seen is that the neighborhoods are acquiring that ethnic flavor, such as the case of Jackson Heights, such as the case of Elmhurst. So I think that if you look at both aspects of the problem you will see that there is a certain cohesiveness already in what's taking place in these neighborhoods. ASSEMBLYMAN PARMENT: Thank you. SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you very much. Gus Prentzas? Genaro Herrera? MR. HERRERA: My name is Genaro Herrera. I am President of La Gran Alianza de Queens, which is an independent democratic club. It's an attempt to have a group of different ethnic backgrounds within the Hispanic community. I thank you for giving me the opportunity to testify before you regarding the important issue of redistricting. I come here before you representing La Gran Alianza de Queens. We are concerned about the entire Borough of Queens, but our particular emphasis is centered in the areas of Corona, Jackson Heights and Elmhurst, simply because it is in those areas where the great majority of Hispanics live in Queens. According to the 2000 Census, North Corona had the highest Hispanic population in Queens in the entire Borough of Queens during the 90s. Yet, Corona has been neglected by virtually all the elected officials that supposedly represent these needy communities. Community Board No. 3, which includes North Corona, East Elmhurst and Jackson Heights, have the distinction of having the biggest increase in population in all the city's 59 community districts. It is generally accepted that when it comes to redistricting in New York State there are three powerful people in the State Government who will have tremendous influence in the process. You know who they are. In our main area of concern, there is a fourth person who will use may tricks to shortchange the Hispanic community, and you know who he is. La Gran Alianza de Queens will be ready in the near future to avoid the weakening of our population. We believe that in the new Congressional, Assembly and Council Districts, our people should be represented according to our numbers. The emerging numerically-powerful Hispanic community in Queens should be recognized and strengthened. To achieve this end, we propose that: An additional Assembly District is created in the area of Jackson Heights, Corona and Elmhurst, in addition to A.D. 34. In the new configuration for the 7th Congressional District, the 12th State Senate District and Council District 21 should include more Hispanics and where compactness is a priority. In the areas of Corona, Jackson Heights and Elmhurst, the best way to empower the people is to recognize the dominant groups of the areas. They are Dominicans, South Americans and Mexicans. We have others, but those are the main groups. They deserve a genuine representation. We have a chance to achieve this through the redistricting process. La Gran Alianza de Queens will be prepared with maps and numbers to accomplish this goal. We are ready to plan with this task force. If more powerful interest prevail in the Legislature, we will not stop. SENATOR SKELOS: Questions? SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. Herrera, you've heard me ask this question to other people. Do you have any evidence that, just as you've described it, the Dominicans, the South Americans and the Mexicans that make up the Latino population, the district you would prefer to have us draw, or that you might draw yourself and give to us, do you have evidence that they vote in a common voting pattern? MR. HERRERA: Yes, I have. And, in fact, the Assemblyperson from District 34 he's saying the opposite. He's saying that most people who voted for him were Hispanics. That's a lie. That's a lie, he knows, because I was a candidate for the A.D. 34 and William Segal was another candidate. There were two Hispanic candidates. We got about 48 percent of the vote and he got about 800 votes, Hispanic votes, I know, because approximately counting the votes of the two candidates, Hispanic candidates, there are 8,800 additional Hispanic votes. I can tell you that my estimate is about at least 500 of those votes were manipulated by the people who were working in the election, the day of the election. The incumbent in District 34 has control of everybody who's working in the election and everybody in the Community Board No. 3, who are the people who are electing him. SENATOR DOLLINGER: I want to put aside that issue. The issue of what goes on in the elections is one thing, but with respect to how the votes were counted, we all know that. But my question is, if there were a Mexican candidate, could you assume, given the demographics you talked about, the Dominicans and other South Americans, would vote for a Mexican candidate? Are there divisions between those culturally-different but yet ethnically-similar groups that would preclude them from voting as a block? MR. HERRERA: It is a very important question and I understand why you ask the question several times. Is it the center of everything because that, you know, that doesn't mean that a Mexican and Columbian is going to vote for a Dominican. And, in fact, there were two Hispanic candidates in A.D. 34, one was -- I'm Dominican -- and one was Columbian. So, many Colombians voted for the Columbian and Dominicans for voting for the Dominican. So, it's not like in Washington Heights that the majority is Dominican, or the barrio in East Harlem that most voters are Puerto Ricans. But we will find a way of getting maybe, in fact, we have the opportunity to select a Dominican in a mostly Dominican district and a Columbian district, were a Columbian candidate be guaranteed to win and a Dominican can be guaranteed to win in another race. SENATOR DOLLINGER: You've answered my question. Thank you. ASSEMBLYMAN ORTLOFF: Just picking up on what you just said. If you believe you can do that, will you submit a plan so that we can see how you would do that? MR. HERRERA: Yes, yes, and, in fact, I'm working on that very hard. And the only problem I have with that is that we would like to see what's happening with the -- We know that the incumbent in A.D. 34 is trying to pack -- instead of unpacking, he's trying to pack a district where he would win, and one district that a Hispanic will win, and we are going to unpack. We are trying to unpack, so to open the process to more than one candidate. And I don't think that we are going to accept the fact that we can have a wide district in the center of the Hispanic community. I don't understand how that can happen. ASSEMBLYMAN ORTLOFF: I would just ask if you can do a plan do it as soon as you can so we have an opportunity to examine it carefully. MR. HERRERA: Right. But can we get information from your end, also, because, I mean, then we have the disadvantage of providing information to you and we don't know what you are doing. We don't know what the incumbent -- We know a little bit about what the incumbent is doing, but that information is not available to anybody, only because maybe somebody is Albany is providing the information. So, I think the process should be open so we don't have to go to court and maybe we can have an understanding before we do that. SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you very much. Lorinda Chen, and Ethel Chen is next. MS. CHEN: Good afternoon. Distinguished panel, ladies and gentlemen, my name is Lorinda Chen and I am the President of the New York Chinese American Association, a 501(c)(3) not-for-profit organization dedicated to assisting and empowering the Chinese new immigrants in their process of assimilation through advocacy, service and community education. Our organization understands the importance of the redistricting process and how it affects profoundly the Asian American community in political presentation, not only for the next 10 years but for decades to come. The redrawing of the political boundaries for all districts every 10 years is crucial to limited English proficient minorities who are struggling to convey their voices to the State and Federal levels of government. Asian Americans are composed of various ethnic groups, but they share common interests, identical barriers and dreams of being part of this great society. They long for elected officials who are fair, sensitive, open-minded, waiting to listen to residents' concerns and speak for their rights and, above all, represent their communities. According to the most recent released Census 2000 data, Asian Americans are one of the fastest-growing minority in the United States, and New York City is home to the largest Asian American population, roughly 800,000 people, comprising 10 percent of New York City's population. About one-half of New York City's Asian population lives in Queens. Neighborhoods such as Flushing, Elmhurst, Woodside, Jackson Heights, Richmond Hill have a substantial number of Asian Americans. The 2000 Census counted 11 million Asian and Pacific Americans nationwide. That's an increase of 46 percent over the past decade. Compared with the steady growth pattern of the last three censuses, we believe that the Asian population was undercounted in Census 2000. In Queens the Asian population has grown four times faster than the overall rate of the borough. Based on the past three decades of population growth patterns, immigration policies, economic activities and the openness of third world countries, we believe that this census undercounted the Asian population in Queens, particularly those minorities with limited English proficiency. We urge the Task Force to use the most accurate adjusted census figure available for the redistricting process. The Flushing community has the largest Asian American population and has become a second Chinatown in New York City. It also has a large number of Koreans and South Asians. Together they share a lot of similarities in education, business style, family values and political participation. Most Asian parents send their children to learn their mother languages either after school or on weekends. Most Asian businesses are open for long hours and operate six or seven days a week. Their children also help out in the mom-and-pop stores. One of the dreams for Asian Americans, particularly the immigrants, is saving enough money to own a house. Though New York City has the largest Asian population in the United States, for hundreds of years not a single Asian has ever been elected to the New York State Legislature or the New York City Council. The local elected politicians often do not understand the needs and concerns of Asian Americans. The recent establishment of a garbage dump in Flushing is an example of disfranchising the local residents and businesses, for which Chinese and Korean communities in Flushing staged a furious protest, only after it became a reality. The establishing of a garbage dump in Flushing was approved without the input and awareness of the local businesses or residents. Because of language barriers, cultural differences, and unfamiliarity with the system, Asian immigrants may be less outspoken than their counterpart Americans but they, too, want to be included in the decision-making process. Asians in Flushing need representatives who are responsive to the needs and concerns of the immigrant communities, who understand and share American dreams, a dream of being able to participate in a society with dignity, fairness, and equality. We urge the Task Force to keep Asian communities together when drawing the political boundaries so that Asian Americans have opportunities to elect candidates best representing their common interests. In addition to Flushing, another heavily-populated Asian neighborhood in Queens is Elmhurst, where Chinese, Indian, Pakistani, Bangladeshi, Korean, Filipino, and Thai reside. A lot of new Asian immigrants live peacefully in this neighborhood. They utilize Elmhurst Hospital for their health care needs. They send their kids to nearby language schools operated by the churches or temples. They go to places of worship situated in regular residential housed on the block. Chinese, Korean and Spanish congregations often worship at the same church under different service schedules. They read their ethnic newspapers, watch ethnic television shows, and tune in to ethnic radio stations. But they share the same American dreams as other immigrants. They work very hard to support their families and mind their own business. But they, too, lack political representation. Elmhurst is split among three Assembly Districts. We urge this Task Force to take a close look at this neighborhood and ensure that Asian American communities are kept together among the newly-drawn districts. In conclusion, we urge that this Task Force take into consideration the ethnic minority in Flushing, Elmhurst, Woodside and other neighborhoods in Queens, and ensure them a fair opportunity to elect candidates of their choice in redistricting. Thank you very much for your time. SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you. Ethel Chen? MS. CHEN: I am the District Leader at Large and, also, the City Council Candidate in Flushing. I am here talking about the Congressional District. In Flushing we have our 10,000 Asian votes and in the other area we have quite a number, also. What I'm talking about is the Flushing, Jackson Heights, Woodside, Elmhurst, Corona have a lot of new immigrants. We have a lot like Chinese, Korean, Latinos. They have different colors but we have more new Americans there so we need to tie all these districts together to have somebody to represent the real needs of that community. I would like to read my testimony here. I ask the Task Force to face their task of redistricting with the integrity our Constitution demands of them. You must consider the environment of the neighborhoods and the people who live in these neighborhoods -- urban, suburban, rural areas all have very different issues and needs. While these needs are all fundamentally the same -- education, safe streets, clean neighborhoods, housing, jobs, our children, our young, our old -- how we approach these concerns are fundamentally different, just as the lifestyles of these communities are different. This is essential in considering the socio-economic makeup of the people. The demographics of Queens, particularly of Flushing, Corona, Jackson Heights, Elmhurst and Woodside, is a solid region we may easily consider a clear example of this reality. Equal to these differences is the need for a consistent redistricting that considers this reality that will allow the representation of our neighborhoods to be truly representative of our needs in solid districts that do ont fragment our representation, slice our neighborhoods in slivers simply to allow a suburban district to meet its population requirements to meet an artificial status quo. These neighborhoods are urban, share common issues such as large minority populations and a large immigrant population, households where English is often not the primary language of the parents, and the ever-present need for racial harmony. Many parents must deal with the struggle to help our children succeed in an education system we must also struggle to understand. We struggle with issues like improving student-teacher ratio and teacher compensation. We strive to reach the level of suburban neighborhoods, which an ever-expanding urban environment often makes difficult. According to The Daily News, in looking at two of the largest ethnic minority groups within these neighborhoods, Hispanics and Asians have a far greater ownership of home computers than all other ethnic groups in middle- to poor-income levels, a tremendous example of the emphasis we place on education and learning to achieve for ourselves and our children. To many of these minority communities, racial harmony, the need for cultural sensitivity, and affirmative action are more than political correctness. In addition, the need for multi-lingual ballots, translators at the polls, multi-lingual information for parents to help their children succeed is paramount to achieving equality. As taxpayers we pay the government more than we receive while we have a growing need for greater medical services, better care for the elderly, schools, trees on our sidewalks, and housing. Crime in an urban environment is very different from suburban. Energy supply, air-water-noise pollution, tons of trash, these are issues of a completely different degree in an urban environment. Flushing, Corona, Jackson Heights, Elmhurst and Woodside are also bounded together by the MTA's "7" train. The maintenance of the "7" and the buses that serve our community are vital for use to get to work, to go to school, and for the stores near mass transportation. Along the "7" line we also share the issues of our parks, playgrounds for children, Shea Stadium, LaGuardia Airport, even parking. We are taxpayers and we matter. The redistricting must consider the census undercounts and give weight to the statistical sampling in drawing districts that represent the people of our great state. We must do more than merely serve the status quo. The next decade must see Queens with fair Senate, Assembly and Congressional districts drawn within the boundaries of our urban environment, and significant consideration must be given to the reality the Flushing, Corona, Jackson Heights, Elmhurst and Woodside is a continuous area in issues, needs, socio-economic definitions, and ethnic communities. Thank you. SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you, ma'am. James Wu? MR. WU: I'm here as a concerned citizen. On my card it's written down that I represent the Asian American Democratic Association of Queens. I am a member there but I am not fully representing the entity. Most of our information will be delivered to your body through AALDEF. I grew up in New York. I lived in Woodside, Forest Hills, Flushing, as well as dorming in Manhattan. I went to New York schools. I was actually born in Mt. Sinai Hospital in the City. I went to Stuyvesant and New York University. I have a great love for the City, and for this reason, odd as it may sound, redistricting is something I am personally passionate about. I feel I must testify today because as an average citizen I believe the Board must understand the importance of redistricting to the people who live here in New York City. After all, when people think of New York State the first image that comes to mind is not Lake Placid or Albany, it's New York City -- Broadway, the Stock Exchange, the Statue of Liberty. And when people think of New York City the face that comes to mind is very cosmopolitan, one that's diverse, multi-ethnic. Minorities are a very significant part of New York's composition. We are an important taxpayer base, we are an important voting base. More, we are an important urban population with important urban issues which binds all our counties -- Queens, Brooklyn, Manhattan, the Bronx, and Staten Island. When the Task Force and our elected officials consider the matter of redistricting New York City I bid you to pay attention to the fundamental principles of fairness in the application of your discretion. The Constitution states that we are all equal. In the apportionment of districts you must remember the spirit of the Constitution and apply the statistical variances that provide latitude in drawing district lines fairly and in a manner representative of the people of New York State. New York City itself is a region defined by the boundaries of our five counties and our districts must represent this. Downstate and New York City, in particular, have increased substantially in population, whereas upstate has decreased. New York City itself is a contiguous area with its own distinct urban interests. We have a substantial minority population that itself has its own issues that, along with urban issues, may differ substantially with upstate issues, and to attempt to redistrict lines to mete out status quo for a artificial party balance is unfair and unreasonable. To reduce the representation of the minority community in government by reducing our representation through statistical chicanery and gerrymandering to splinter New York City to provide neighboring suburban counties the population to maintain their level of representation, while diminishing ours, is a disservice to the people of this City, State, and all of America. Apportionment must be fairly allocated, without inverse applications, statistical variances, such as allowing for a 5 percent underpopulation district while allowing for a 5 percent overpopulation the same representation. Such would be a deliberate inequity by allowing, for example, 95 people in one district having the same legislative seats and rights as 105 people in say New York. This is even more egregious considering the extent to which experts attribute the undercounting of minority populations, of which is a significant portion of New York City's composition. Census counts have demonstrated a steady history of growth for New York City. To dilute our representation by stabbing New York communities with statistical slivers reduce our real representation with phoney legislative seats that have no vested interest in New York City or Queens. To reduce our representation would clearly violate the facts of the census and the spirit of the redistricting. The realities of our communities' socio-economic demographics, ethnicity, and concern for urban issues are paramount. It would simply not be reasonable to attenuate the ability of New York City's constituents with the divergent concerns and reduce our power to lobby our duly elected representatives with the issues important to our city and our communities. Queens itself has no districts that experienced any reduction in population. Queens as a whole has its own direct interests. As an example, Queens is being asked to bear a disproportionate amount of the supplemental power plants that are being put in to make up for the energy supply shortage, which puts extra air pollution, noise pollution into our community. If we had a higher level of fair representation and our representation wasn't so diluted by mixed districts which really stab upstate and don't truly represent us, other issues could have been considered in the planning of this. Simply making the roofs white or making them tan would have reduced our energy consumption to a level where we would not have needed those plants. Moderate conservation would have done this. It would do if California would look at it, and this was on the front page of The Wall Street Journal from about six weeks ago. Our neighborhoods must have fair representation to consolidate our voice to Congressmen, State Assemblymen and State Senators that consider our issues not as an afterthought but as the core issues they embrace. It is unfair to fragment our voices in the slivers that merely serve the to populate suburban districts where our issues, our needs are diluted to nothingness. The districts you plan will stand for the next decade. New York City will only grow. I sincerely hope upstate will grow, as well. I fully realize the interests of the political parties are to maintain a sort of status quo -- do not rock the boat by gerrymandering each other out of office as a form of grand political compromise. However, we live in a democracy. In this ideal it is the will of the people that matters. I ask you to remember this and adhere to the integrity of your office. It is not the party that represents the people, it's the office you each serve. We ask you to hear us and voice our will. Thank you. One thing I do wish to add, in my understanding -- I know, of course, we are losing two Congressional seats in the coming redistricting -- as I understand it, Queens should be gaining two Assembly seats and at least one Senate seat, as I see the statistics, and from as I understand how the Supreme Court ruled it, there will be respect to the boundaries of the City, which were not respected in the prior districting? Does anybody know, just out of curiosity? SENATOR SKELOS: We're receiving testimony today. We have not started line drawing. MR. WU: No, I'm not asking about the line drawing. I'm just curious about, as I understood, the ruling of the Supreme Court. It was that from the literature that I have read, that they are mandating that city boundaries be respected, or county boundaries. ASSEMBLYMAN PARMENT: I am not aware of that case. If you have a citation I would be happy to receive that. I'm not aware of that. MR. WU: No problem. Thank you. SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you. Mirajul Hoque, H-o-q-u-e? Joshua Kim? Maria Tolois? AnneMarie Scanlon? MS. ROBINSON: Good afternoon. My name is Regina Robinson. I'm speaking on behalf of AnneMarie Scanlon, and I am the Executive Director of the Emerald Isle Immigration Center. Good afternoon and thank you for the opportunity to be here today. While it could be said that a cartographer has the skill for drawing a map, it might also be said that a geographer has the skill of understanding where people come from. At the Emerald Isle Immigration Center we are a non-profit organization and we have two offices. Our main office is in Woodside, Queens. We deal with clients on a daily basis and our daily volume is in excess of 18,000. We deal very much with documented and undocumented, very may Irish. About 65 percent of our clientele are Irish-born or come from the U.K. And the rest of our clientele comes from the neighborhood. So I'm here to speak on behalf of all of our immigrants from the neighborhood. I also would request that we keep the area of Maspeth, Sunnyside, Northwest, and Northern Queens, that we do keep that area together. While the geographer might say that people come from different countries for different reasons, there is one reason that people stay here and there is one reason that people want to be here when they do come here, and that's the opportunity to be in America and the opportunity to experience the American life. While it is said by geographers that there are over 40 million people of Irish descent that are in this country, the Irish are still coming out. And you may hear otherwise in the press, whatever, but they come into our offices, as well as many people from our neighborhood. We service the Latin community, we service the Asian community, we service anyone who comes through our door. And during the first few months of this year we serviced over 3,000 clients that were interested in getting documented status with 245(i). With the undocumented, as we well know, they cannot vote. They were undercounted in the different census reports, and our mission is to work with all immigrants so that we can get them into the mainstream and to give them the opportunity to vote. Within the past six months we've helped process 450 immigrants to U.S. citizenship in the neighborhoods of Woodside, Sunnyside, Maspeth, and this part of Queens, our very strong and vibrant and very much consider support. I thank you very much. SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you. Are there any questions? That completes our list of speakers. We've gone through it twice. Does anybody else wish to speak? Yes, ma'am? If you wish to speak, why don't you please come up and we'll take you one at a time. MS. ZINAR: Thank you. My name is Ruth Zinar. I was told I was called twice before but I do volunteer teaching in the morning. I'm here to represent Common Cause New York. We are pleased to have the opportunity to testify today on redistricting, as it is the underlying issue that frames all others in relation to democracy in government. For more than 30 years Common Cause has been a leading advocate for democratic reforms to our political process, reforms on issues like those raised in the 2000 elections that are critical to realizing the principle of one person-one vote. We have been a leader at the Federal and State level on campaign finance issues, legislative and executive branch ethics rules, reapportionment and redistricting, and other election-related laws, like same-day registration and motor voter. We also have been consistent participants in civil and voting rights coalition, and in attempting to energize and mobilize all citizens to participate in our democracy. Common Cause New York endorsed the findings of a NYPIRG study released in February 2001 that showed how drawing the district lines impacts the democratic process. Key findings include: Only 25 incumbents have been defeated in the general election in New York State over the past 20 years. In the last 4,220 legislative races in the general election incumbents were only defeated 25 times, less than 1 percent of the races. And the trend toward incumbency protection has increased over time. In the last three general elections only three incumbents were defeated. In addition, victors win with an overwhelming margin. The average percentage margin victory in the Senate was a staggering 63 percent, in the Assembly victors won by an average 59 percent. Only 25 of the 211 legislative districts have major party enrollments that could allow competitive elections. Of the 61 State Senate Districts 24 are drawn to give one political party an enrollment edge of 40,000 or more, 18 grant an enrollment edge of between 25,000 and 40,000. Normally, it would be extraordinarily difficult for challengers to take on an incumbent in these districts, and campaign finance advantages have helped Senate Republicans to take seven of these so-called competitive districts. Only 10 Senate Districts are competitive districts, those in which the enrollment difference between the major parties is 13,000 or fewer. And all have Republican advantages and have been won by Republicans. In the 150 Assembly Districts, 65 grant an enrollment edge of 25,000 or more, 41 grant an enrollment edge of between 10,000 and 20,000. Only 18 are "competitive districts," those with enrollment differences of 5,000 or fewer. 177 of the 211 victors in the 2000 election outspent their opponents by a ratio of at least 2-to-1. In political campaigns money talks and it talks loudly. Campaign contributors like to bet on winners, and when it comes to New York elections incumbents almost always win. In competitive races may victors outspent their opponents by a huge ratio. In many of those races the victor's fundraising efforts were enhanced by donations transferred directly from PACs controlled by the legislative leadership. The majority party had a huge edge in campaign fundraising in the 2000 election. The majority party of whichever house outraised the minority party by over 2-to-1. New York law creates legislative PACs that are controlled by the legislative leadership. Contributions to those PACs are extraordinarily high, with an annual $76,500 limit. These legislative committees then are allowed to transfer an unlimited amount to the candidates of their choice, the bulk of which ends up being spent in competitive races and make the difference. Competitive elections are the lifeblood of democracy. Only through the clash of ideas can voters intelligently understand complex public policies and think through the implications of policy alternatives. Competitive elections stimulate voter interest in elections and in state government generally. New York's policies that determine legislative districts and set campaign finance practices smother competitive elections, thus endangering democracy. It doesn't have to be that way. As law makers contemplate their constitutional redistricting obligations, you must ensure that nourishing competitive elections is a top objective. Here are critical components of any meaningful reform package endorsed by NYPIRG, the League of Women Voters and Common Cause New York: 1. Allow the public to participate in the redistricting process. The 2001-2002 redistricting process could be the most open in the nation's history. With unprecedented advances in technology citizens now have the capability of participating in the redistricting process, but only if law makers cooperate. New York State must add to its web site all information it uses or considers in the development of its district lines. In addition, law makers should issue draft district lines well in advance of the June 2002 deadline so that citizens may have time to consider and comment on them. We must note that notice for this public hearing was not on the web site for either the New York State Assembly or New York State Senate, and that our organization, Common Cause New York, did not even receive a notice of this hearing. That is not a transparent start to this process. You must notify the public and keep them involved in this process. We hope it improves from a weak start. 2. Minimize the role of partisan enrollment in developing new district lines for the 2002 elections. New York State's redistricting process is incredibly partisan. The legislative leadership controls district lines for each house. The Republican-controlled Senate draws its lines and the Democrat-controlled Assembly does the same. Both houses agree to the other's plan and the legislation is sent to the Governor for his approval. There are alternatives. Some states have a non-partisan redistricting system. The State of Iowa, for example, has a non-partisan system for redistricting that could be followed in New York in time for the 2002 changes. Civil Service-like technicians make the first draft of the district lines. These staff are not allowed to consider incumbents' home addresses or to use the party affiliation of voters in considering district lines. The proposed district lines are sent to state law makers for approval or disapproval. The legislature is not permitted to amend the proposal. The courts are empowered to step in if there is no agreement. 3. Enact comprehensive campaign finance reform. Our examination of the 2000 election results clearly documents that in those few competitive districts big money made the difference. It is quite apparent that New York's current system of establishing State legislative districts dramatically minimizes the number of competitive races. New York's disgraceful system of campaign finance virtually eliminates what little competition is left after redistricting. New York State law makers do not have to look far for a model of how to reform its campaign finance system. Described by The New York Times as "the best and fairest way for candidates to run for political office," New York City has a system of public financing of elections that is a model for the nation. As a result of its four public dollars for every one dollar raised from small, private donations, New York City now has competitive elections in which average citizens have a shot at elective office. Moreover, once in office, those legislators now owe little to rich special interests. It is the model that state law makers should emulate in Albany. We urge you to revisit dramatically how you implement redistricting in New York State. Nothing less than our democracy is at stake. First, make the process transparent and involve the public. Second, turn the tides on the overtly partisan redistricting that takes place today and replace it with a non-partisan model that puts citizens before politics. Common Cause New York looks forward to working with you to achieve the goal of a working democracy and thanks you, again, for the opportunity to testify. SENATOR SKELOS: I saw that young lady a long time ago, so why don't we go there and then to you and then the gentleman there. MS. SINGH: My name is Pritha Singh. I am from the Richmond Hill community, Indo-Caribbean community and I am here to read a paper by Mr. Vishnu Mahadeo of the East Indian Diaspora Inc. My name is Vishnu Mahadeo. I am the General Secretary of the East Indian Diaspora Inc. The East Indian Diaspora Inc. is a not-for-profit organization established in March 1987. I am also a member of a community board in Queens, C.B. 9, and an assistant crew leader during the Census 2000, working at the Queens Central Department 2239. I developed a community partnership with New York Regional Census Center to promote Indo-Caribbean Census 2000 awareness. Today I speak on behalf of the Indo-Caribbean residents of Queens. Who are the Indo-Caribbean people? Indo-Caribbeans are multiple immigrants who started coming to the U.S. of America from the 1970s onwards. They are the descendants of people of South Asian origin who were taken as indentured laborers to various parts of the English, French and Dutch Caribbean, including Guyana, Trinidad, Tobago, Surinam, Jamaica and St. Lucia from 1835 through 1917. The word Indo-Caribbean is used to identify immigrants, adults, elders, and at least three generations of Indo-Caribbean Americans now domiciled in the United States, the majority in New York's tri-borough, with the highest concentration in Richmond Hill, Ozone, South Ozone. We are undercounted. Inasmuch as the Immigration Department early 2000 issued a six-month moratorium on immigration raids, the New York City Department of Buildings testified illegal conversion rates. Consequently, severe undercounting resulted. Due to this very vexed issue of illegal conversion raids within the Indo-Caribbean community in Queens, specifically in Richmond Hill, Ozone Park and South Ozone Park, landlords and tenants were fearful to open their doors to anyone just in case that person could be a building inspector and then the dreaded consequences. I was a specialist in converting repeated refusals into numeration. However, the majority of respondents will only provide partial information as to how many residents are within a housing unit. The general fear was centered on the concern that other entities, government state and city agencies, would have access to this information which can be to generate additional liabilities to the respondent. The reluctance of illegal immigrants to participate. Illegal immigrants are residents who came here illegally. They perpetuate fear of responding to specific and personal questions to a complete stranger and this became a reality, unfortunately, only a handful of Indo-Caribbean residents were hired to enumerate within Richmond Hill and its environments. The undercount was intentionally overlooked because regional managers were only concerned with the printed information provided by the Census via the Census binders. This primary concern was completing the printed information requested by the Census Bureau. On May 21st, 2000 I conducted a Census 2000 Reach Awareness exercise as a partner of an authorized community partnership. This exercise lasted three months, was done at the Smokey Park Oval in Richmond Hill at the Indo-Caribbean Immigration Day. During this exercise I was able to document 37 individuals with addresses and phone numbers. As of May 21st not one of this batch was enumerated by anyone from the Census Bureau, nor did anyone fill out a census form. This information was subsequently provided to the local census office for proper enumeration and documentation. I kept in touch with several individuals. On August 8th, 2000 I faxed the data to Allison Cenac, Area Manager at the Varick Street office. To date, several of these individuals have not been contacted by the Census Bureau. I have provided copies of this correspondence and a list of the individuals that were not enumerated by the Census Bureau. This failure to effectively count the residents of the Richmond Hill community is of serious concern to us as Indo-Caribbeans. The lack of specific race-country of origin categories. Since specific categories were not on the census form, our people could not be counted effectively. We were categorized by uninformed census enumerators as West Indians, hence, as blacks and/or African-Americans, Asian Indians and, in many cases, some other race. This lack of specific category resulted in a flawed count. The Mayor of New York City and the New York City Board of Education are fully aware of the overcrowding of the public schools in Queens. During the recent State of the City address, Mayor Guiliani revealed a plan to build 10 new public schools in Queens. Two of these schools are scheduled to be constructed in Richmond Hill. The public school system is a reflection of our presence and our community. The high volume of enrollment among Indo-Caribbeans reflects the public school system. The enrollment record and the high instance of Indo-Caribbeans in the school can be used to provide a better count of the Indo-Caribbean residents in Richmond Hill and its environs. Other consequences of the counting is the election districts. All new election districts must meet the standards set by the Justice Department. The Justice Department, under the mandate of the Voting Rights Act, must assure fair representation of minorities at all levels of government. Richmond Hill is currently divided in four State Assembly Districts. This division does not assure fair representation of Indo-Caribbeans in any form of government but, rather, it is clear it debilitates, destabilizes the Indo-Caribbean Americans politically, economically, socially, and culturally, and renders us impotent, devoid of participation in our civic duties and rights. As the new immigrants, new Americans, we cannot help but feel that this is a deliberate attempt to disenfranchise the Indo-Caribbean people here. The status quo threatens the life of our community and threatens to spawn new generations of Indo-Caribbean youth who will grow up without representation, identity and commitment to the destiny of family, home, community, city, state and, ultimately, their country, the United States. Once again, on behalf of my community, I thank you. SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you. ASSEMBLYMAN PARMENT: Could I ask one question? I'm not sure it's pertinent to our discussion here, but is there a common language, in addition to English, in the Caribbean -- among the Indo-Caribbeans? MS. SINGH: Among the Indo-Caribbeans here they speak Dutch and Hindustani who are from Surinam, which is actually South America but considered Caribbean because of the European colonization. And in the British-speaking islands, of course, we speak English. And many of our people speak Urdu and Hindi, which is more in a religious or learned way. And we also have many Indians, a small margin, who are from French-speaking and these other islands. But, generally, we are quite apt in the English language. ASSEMBLYMAN PARMENT: Thank you. SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you. MR. SARCHESE: Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. I am from Astoria in the 14th Congressional District. My name is Rudy Sarchese. I am the President of Astoria-Ditmars Homeowner and Tenant Civic Association, and a member of the community board and I am active to the many community civic associations. Astoria and Long Island City have benefitted from being included in a district that encompasses Western Queens and the East Side of Manhattan. Historically, Astoria has a strong connection with the East Side of Manhattan. Astoria began as a village, created by Stephen Halsey in 1839. Halsey started a ferry that connected with Manhattan at 92nd Street. With ferry service providing easy access to Manhattan, the village of Astoria grew and prospered. In fact, Waterways has recently restored ferry service between our community ad the East Side. Astoria was named for John Jacob Astor, whose main residence was in Manhattan, but had a summer home in Astoria. Washington Irving, who had a house near Gramercy Park on the East Side of Manhattan on what is now known as Irving Place, wrote a book on the fur trade while living at John Jacob Astor's house in Astoria. In recent years, Astoria has become an increasingly popular place to live. Its easy access to Manhattan, reasonable prices and wonderful restaurants and shopping make it a great community. Astoria has always been a wonderful place to live, but we are becoming the neighborhood of choice for many young professionals who have been priced out of Manhattan. It makes sense for us to share a district with the East Side of Manhattan. The issues that affect both neighborhoods are often identical. Our communities have problems with a large number of power plants. We are concerned about over-development and traffic congestion. We have an aging population who depend on local senior centers. Congresswoman Carolyn Maloney has worked hard for Western Queens and she understands our concerns. I have been deeply involved in the effort to preserve our neighborhood from a large influx of power plants. The 14th Congressional District on both sides of the river is home to many of the State's most polluting power plants. What is worst, there are proposals to build seven new power plants in the district, six in Queens and one in Manhattan. Congresswoman Maloney co-hosted one of the first forums in Queens on the impending power plant boom to discuss its impact on the community, and I know she has been active on this issue in Manhattan, as well, where local communities face similar concerns. It helps to have an elected official who can work effectively from the common experience of communities of interest across the boroughs. Thank you. SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you. MR. RUPNARAIN: Mr. Chairman, members of the Legislative Task Force, a very good afternoon to all of our. I apologize to be late. I was in court this morning. First, my name is Trevor Rupnarain. I am an attorney in Richmond Hill. I've been practicing there for the past 10 years. I am also a candidate for the City Council in District 28. I have some very brief points that I would like to submit for consideration. Maybe it's too late to implement some of these, but I just want to bring it back to the attention of the Task Force. One is on public education. To ensure that New Yorkers are involved, there must be a massive public education structure in place. New York State Legislative Advisory Task Force on Reapportionment must educate the media, public, civic, religious, and community leaders, and to get the various ethnic groups involved, the local media, the local newspapers in the neighborhoods should carry some public service messages. Secondly, ethnic representation. I believe that persons of color from different ethnic, racial, and religious backgrounds should be appointed or consulted to LAFTOR at the Task Force and senior staff levels for consultation on various issues that you may not be aware of. Thirdly, I feel that dialogue, meetings or venues should be set up to encourage inter-group dialogue that transcends racial, ethnic, and religious lines, to promote transparency in this effort that you're undertaking. Fourth, there should be continued public hearings at different forums to maximize public participation and community involvement on different levels in our community. And, lastly, I just want to submit that there should be public access to data in your formulations prior to plan finalization and submission to the Legislature and the U.S. Department of Justice. We should have access to public data maybe through the internet or some other forum, and the public should have at least one last opportunity to review your recommendations to make submissions and/or objections. Thank you. SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you very much, sir. MR. COHEN: Good afternoon. My name is Ken Cohen. I'm President of the NAACP Flushing branch, the NAACP being the boldest and the oldest, the most loved, the most hated, the most feared, and most revered civil rights organization not only in this country but in the world. We feel it's time to see more people of color start to address the roles of election and to seats in Congress and in the State Legislature. In many sections of Northeastern Queens we still do not have people of color elected to office except for in community school board rolls. We need to make that change. We see that change in areas where there are elected officials presently serving in what we call "skip" districts, in other words two sections may be separated by anywhere from four to 10 miles of area. Queens has been one of the largest growing ethnically-diverse communities probably this country has seen in a long time. It is time for that representation and recognition to be recognized. We need people of color to start representing our community and we need this now. We hope that this Task Force will not make the mistakes of the census and of the last elections, and so fully listen to all the testimony given here and act on it. Thank you and good afternoon. SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you. Does anybody else wish to speak at this time? Yes, sir. MR. SYNTILAS: My name is Dennis Syntilas. It's Greek to you but I'll try to make it easy, S-y-n-t-i-l-a-s. I am a member of Community Board No. 1 for the past 25 years and President of the Greek American Homeowners Association, a founder of Athens Square, an organization that is established to protect our parks and our communities. And I am here just to say a few words. The majority of the Greek American community in Astoria, close to 80,000 people, are against this redistricting and changing the existing lines because through our experience these changes brought confusion in our community and we feel that any change there will be unfair to the community, not only to the Greek American people -- to the Greek American community -- but to the community at large. We know our politicians that live there for many years. They came up with us. We voted for them because we know how good they are to work for our community. For example, we have Congresswoman Maloney there that really knows her for many years and she has given her best work and effort not only to Greek Americans, not only to Italian Americans, but to the entire community, and this community, ladies and gentlemen, that we have 117 ethnic groups that we live harmoniously. We work for our community, volunteers, and everything else. So, I just came here to bring this vote from the majority of the Greek Americans from Astoria. Thank you very much. Good afternoon. SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you. Anybody else wish to speak? Yes, ma'am. MS. TOLIOU: My name is Maria Toliou. I'm a photographer in Queens and working for the Greek newspapers and newspapers in Greece. What I want to say, I wrote down, if you don't mind to read what I wrote, that Western Queens is becoming a place to be seen -- contemporary art in America, the museums and artistic groups choosing to settle in Western Queens are beginning to rival Manhattan in importance. The museums our parks have made our community a destination for tourists and New Yorkers who are interested in contemporary art. Recently, the Museum of Modern Art has announced that it will be moving new exhibition and permanent office space in the old Swingline building in Long Island City. During the renovation on the Manhattan side, MOMA chose the site because it is near easy transportation right across the river. The connection to its home base on the East Side of Manhattan was obvious. In fact, the transportation ride makes Western Queens and the East Side work well together in one Congressional District. Last week "Queens: New York's Future," a article saying that Long Island City is on the brink of becoming the next Soho. Manhattan's high rents are boosting the artistic community into our neighborhood in Queens. The Sculpture Center, the Dorsky Gallery, and Materials for the Arts have all decided to move here in our district. Artists have been flooding former factory spaces, turning them into studios. Last month there was a three-day arts festival to showcase our area as a cultural district with a new map of all the galleries, museums and studios. Shuttle bus service will link the art institutions. While Western Queens may be the new kind of block when it comes to the art world, the East Side of Manhattan is home to more museums than any other place in the United States. Museum Mile includes many of the world's great museums, including the Metropolitan Museum of Art, the Frick, the Whitney and the Guggenheim. There is a natural connection between the grand old established museums that are famous throughout the world and these new museums that are finding a home in Western Queens. They should have the same Congressional representative. Having a member of Congress who understands the concerns of museums and of the arts is helpful. Museums are affected by a wide variety of concerns, from the National Endowment for the Arts to tax law, from efforts to promote the copyright law, museums have Federal concerns that benefit from having a member of Congress who understands their needs, for example, I can say the people that we have in our community that represent us. That's all I have to say. Thank you very much. SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you very much. We appreciate everybody attending. Motion to adjourn? VOICE: So moved. VOICE: Second. SENATOR SKELOS: So moved. Thank you very much. (Whereupon, 2:50 p.m., the hearing was adjourned.) I, NEIL M. SEFF, do hereby state that I attended at the time and place above-mentioned and took a stenographic record of the proceedings in the above-entitled matter, and that the foregoing is a true and correct copy of the same and the whole thereof, according to the best of my ability and belief. __________________________________________ NEIL M. SEFF - Hearing Reporter Dated: ____________________________________

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